Tom Sawyer talks about terrorism and spiritual association. Recorded in February, 1990. Duration: 1h 15mins. (19 pages)

 

Raw Transcript:

00:00:45 – 00:01:56
Wow. Um, okay. Let’s see. We’re talking about airplanes. All right. Yeah. All right. Well, to use myself as an example in a circumstance of a couple of years ago, uh, as most of you know, I have a fascination with airplanes. I know a little bit about them. I’m able to identify the usual commercial airlines just sometimes by the sound of the motors, things like that. So, I have a, shall I say, a fascination with airplanes and I sensationalize them. I have my favorite airplanes. I recommend

00:01:25 – 00:02:44
that if you have a choice, you fly um any of the newer Boeing models, a 737400, uh the 300, the 400, um of course the new 757, 767, a Boing 70, uh no not 707, 747, they’re all good planes. Uh if you have a choice, you would prefer not to fly DC10s, uh DC9s are good planes and they’re quiet, but they’re getting pretty old and so on. And by no means would I ever suggest that you cancel a flight or not take a flight just because it’s one of your least favorite planes. But you may say

00:02:04 – 00:03:26
you want to wear a pair of quick release shoes in case you have to step out into the water if you fly a DC10. Okay, so the point is that I’m I sensationalize and champion airplanes. Um, now because of that, oh, I’ll typically read a book if it’s got a picture of one of my favorite planes and uh I become uh maybe a little overly attached to F-14 Tomcats because my baby boy son Todd is flying around in them. That would be enough excuse or reason to be have an extra interest in that. But more than that, um, in the

00:02:45 – 00:04:11
last 10 or 12 years, I’ve had several precognitions that include plane crashes of various types. And typical of any realization of any crash, instantaneously, I would know what kind of a plane it will be or was to have been. Um, there is a classical example of the L1011 that crashed in Texas and of course that’s even referred to as the L1011 story. So, one of my favorite planes is um a 737400. There’s a 737300 or 400. Either one. They’re identical. One’s just a little bit larger than the other.

00:03:28 – 00:04:42
Um, and there seems to be as slight of a pattern as it is there seems to have been a pattern that if there is a major circumstances regarding airplanes I might know about it either ahead of time or shall I dare say clairvoyantly as the thing takes place. So the example being on one particular day I was at work and I suddenly realized and I said out loud to the two people that were present or in front of the two people that were present um oh my gosh one of my planes is in jeopardy. Now see I have a

00:04:06 – 00:05:10
tendency to show off if you will and sensationalize first of all uh my favorite planes are my planes. In other words they’re mine. Uh one of my 737s is in jeopardy. So I was quickly questioning that. What do you mean? And one of the fellows that was at work who works on my crew regularly said, “Uh, what do we have? Another crash or what?” Said a little bit arrogantly, but he really meant, you know, he was interested right away and said, “Is it another crash?” And then um a followup

00:04:38 – 00:05:46
and I don’t recall his exact sentences now, but it was something to the tune of, “Well, has this happened yet or is it happening right now?” meaning that he’s been in my presence when I’ve said both things that there will be a plane crash in the near future and the next one will be a DC9 or a whatever the next one might be and also present when I’d have to say clairvoyantly I would be aware of a dilemma situation that’s happening at the exact time I would say an L1011 has

00:05:12 – 00:06:23
a fire on board and something of that nature and then it of course be true by that evening’s news. It’ll be you know verified that at the time I was driving in the truck with this guy or wherever we were that that is when it took place. So with that background this one particular day I said uh one of my claims is in jeopardy. Now what I became aware of clairvoyantly and functioning very normally a rough tough uh DPW worker and all that sort of stuff just rather spontaneously became clairvoyantly aware

00:05:48 – 00:06:58
of way over on the other side of the earth in other words in the in the Middle East somewhere didn’t know exactly where uh was a 737 that was being hijacked and that jeopardized the plane because the uh the perpetrators um uh I don’t want to say Lebanese because I’m not even sure if they’re from Lebanon or not, but uh Middle Eastern type people had guns aboard the plane that was flying at uh quite a high altitude and um uh in other words, if they would have fired the guns through the fuselage of

00:06:23 – 00:07:41
the plane, it would have jeopardized one of my airplanes and conceivably it could have crashed. So on an ongoing basis for a period of about oh I would say a couple of hours now not any less than a couple of hours I was clairvoyantly in tune with or um with this airplane and the dilemma that was going on board. Now, one of the things that I’m admitting guilt to is that in a circumstance like that, like anybody naturally would, I’ll take an interest enough and to try to remain receptive to

00:07:01 – 00:08:26
that awareness and to follow the story. In other words, stick with it for a while. Well, I was able to do that to a uh at least to a degree and I was aware of visualizing the interior of the plane. And of course, typical of me in the past, I would wish to have a type of telepathic receptivity to me and the pilot and then second choice, the co-pilot if there’s a navigator or uh then typically turned toward as a as an other choice. Was that just an earthquake? No, I think it was the dog rubbing up against this. Come

00:07:43 – 00:09:05
here. And they’re watching everything go like this. Um uh in other words, the choices would be from the uh the the pilot, co-pilot, navigator into the stewardist or the the flight attendant. And then if there was no receptivity on their part because for instance for me to say uh or think in terms telepathically think uh you know what’s going on you know this you as the pilot what do you know and and are you spiritually receptive enough to be openhearted enough or open mind enough to allow somebody who is telepathically

00:08:27 – 00:09:38
receptive to you to share in your existence for the moment. That’s it. I think that’s the best way I can say it. And there has been an occasion where there has been either a one-way or a two-way receptivity. And therefore, I have been able to gain additional insights or knowledge or on a rare occasion unconditionally of love, the pilot or at least send some love energy. You know, the classical way we say it, just send some love energy that you know through that dilemma situation to make a

00:09:03 – 00:10:16
make it a little bit brighter than darker. Well, in this circumstance, uh it was strange in a way by my standards because I kind of methodically went through that system of pilot, co-pilot, uh there was not a separate navigator on board. There was another person who was from the company, shall I say, that was just flying on board the plane and there was it was a privacy type uh not manipulative, but in other words, they were not receptive to a two-way communication. So, I was able to maintain at least an awareness, a

00:09:40 – 00:10:59
one-way telepathic communication with the airplane and um of course sort of searching for an additional attachment tobody anybody board the plane. Well, to give you a basic idea of what took place was the um uh the female steartesses or the flight attendants were not receptive, although I could see them where they were and of course the terrible fear and and trauma and dilemma that was on board because the men had shown their guns and were screaming and yelling and and um also in a very short period of time were going IC asking for

00:10:20 – 00:11:48
passports since it was an overseas flight to verify and what they were looking for were Israeli the Israeli uh passengers andor American passengers and in that order their priority was to um maliciously attack and threaten and um with an idea of of if their hijack flight would not be successful, they could first kill the Israelis on board the plane. So while they were doing that, um gee, shall I dare be so um uh brash as to say that I was scanning the passengers. It was like just like walking as though walking down the aisle

00:11:05 – 00:12:12
saying uh hello, would you talk to me? You know, hello, is there anybody there? What you were asking for sensing was were they reaching up to their high spiritual self or to God or were they Right. Right. And even if they were doing that, there is a privacy that anybody can maintain. In other words, I say a lack of receptivity. It is by no means a lack of receptivity to what they are, think of, or can perceive or do. It’s just that also parallel with that circumstance, they are not desiring or

00:11:39 – 00:12:44
being receptive to a two-way telepathic communication with anybody else in the world. Okay? Now, if in fact they’re in tune with their God, fine. God bless them all. And I was not aware of that because that is intimate and personal and spiritual and and I do not have Carton Blanch telepathically to ever delve into the privacy, the act of free will, the privacy of anybody unless there is a a spiritual or a psychic or a telepathic in any other way you want to think of it. Receptivity, which is also

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permission. know they can maintain a lack of permission for me to perceive anything that they are emanating or emulating or leave me alone even or just nothing just you know in other words uh there’s no receptivity it doesn’t have to be justified um in fact the reverse is true to have a receptive individual requires many things first of all as we speak of frequency they have to be similar enough to you in a in a way not identical to you, but similar enough to in a way to speak your language or to be clairvoyantly or

00:12:51 – 00:13:59
telepathically receptive at all. And it may even be the first thing, but they have to give in to that. They have to be permissive of that. Yeah. Permissive. Um they have to allow that. they have to give into that and give permission spiritually speaking to allow themselves to be part of that. Uh if they’re not, it doesn’t happen. Uh if they are, they can they can limit it to, you know, I feel the presence of somebody thinking about me. In other words, I can hear somebody saying my name, you know, things like that. Or

00:13:25 – 00:14:32
your ears were ringing, but you didn’t really understand why. And then coincidentally or synchronistically you might find out later that gee at that exact time we all yelled your name out loud something like that gives you an idea but then to for instance to have a receptivity on the part of say a pilot there was one occasion where there was a degree of receptivity in other I said that the pilot was a lover but what I meant was a spiritual oriented person who has a perception of love. All right.

00:13:59 – 00:15:16
I didn’t mean sexually or romantically or certainly no mutual love relationship with me other than that which is spiritually unconditional of sorts. And in that circumstance, only a one-way receptivity was on my part where I could just as best I were able to love that man unconditionally and and send light his way, send love his way, acknowledge that I had knowledge, psychic knowledge of his prowess as a pilot. And the effect of that was that that particular pilot felt a little very bonafideed

00:14:37 – 00:15:47
pride. was good pride, not excessive pride or ego, but pride that I really am the pilot that I am. And in that capacity, he had a tendency to sit up a little straighter and and get in the position of flying the plane, even though it was on automatic pilot. And in doing that, he was able to visually see on an almost near collision of another plane. and he immediately grabbed a hold of the controls and dove his plane and uh was able to go underneath the near the near collision. And again, now does that do you have to

00:15:15 – 00:16:23
blame Tom Sawyer for saving that collision? I don’t need that. I don’t like that idea, but there was a cause and effect relationship there that that psychically or spiritually there was an assistance, but it depended on the receptivity of that pilot. And even though he will never identify me or God or or any other spiritual thing, when something comes to you psychically, you don’t necessarily know the exact source. You can know that it’s bonafide. You can know that it’s pure or divine in nature.

00:15:49 – 00:17:09
Because see, a love gesture from an individual who is just a mortal being can be divine in nature. And you can therefore experience that it was as though God hugged me. All right. So that’s okay. And even though the actual source was his or her mother thinking tenderly and lovingly in a motherly way or another person who had never met before in a very unconditionally way just saying you are a beautiful soul and I love you for that and you can do this to a murderer you can do this to anybody and there

00:16:29 – 00:17:33
there is a probability of a receptivity there Right? Even though it’s so ambiguous that it might just be a moment feeling of gee, look out at the sky. Isn’t it beautiful today? Or gee, I’ve been feeling so depressed lately. Maybe I shouldn’t feel so bad. Maybe somebody does care about me and have no identification of who is caring about me. So, it can be very ambiguous or it can be very detailed. And of course there can even be situations and problems that can occur to an additional

00:17:01 – 00:18:16
receptivity because for instance for you to psychically actually be aware of another individual alive in this time frame who is loving you unconditionally. There can be sociological problems that can result from that know we can get in the subject of does that mean that we are soulmate? I mean does that mean that we have to meet does that mean does what is the meaning of that at all and usually there should remain I mean I’m being judgmental now saying there should remain uh no condition just understand that something

00:17:38 – 00:18:54
has just taken place and allow it for whatever it is and don’t spend the rest of your life demanding or finding out what it means or what it has to be because every bit of that will be judgmental and it will often pollute or distort the original intention. Well, now that I’ve qualified that, it turns out that there was receptivity of one particular young lady and it didn’t matter if in fact it was a young lady or um would you like to interrupt us so we can answer the phone? There we’re back and I still have no

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beard. I didn’t know. I gave the secret away. I’m sorry. Uh I’ll try not to sneeze again. You mean the beard will come back? Shall we do that? Um okay. Well, I I last sentence I said I think that I established that in this plane of the 737 type on this day in the Middle East that there was a hijacking of sorts and that I eventually established the only receptivity on board that plane. the roughly I’m guessing at a number like 120 or maybe there was as few as 80. Now that the plane was not full at all but

00:18:58 – 00:20:07
um of the people uh on board the plane there was a young lady and of course that wasn’t the measurement is anybody because I don’t know of your knowledge anybody viewing this tape or or standard knowledge. I don’t know what the book says about this, but um for me 99% of the time, now there’s a vast vast majority of the time that I am receptive at all telepathically, there is no sex involved. In other words, if it’s another human being, it’s another human being and there’s no gender.

00:19:31 – 00:20:37
Although I will get measurement as seeing though it’s physically seeing and being able to know that it is a young lady who has a pair of slacks on or a dress on. In other words, I may or may not know additional physical type information. In other words, that they’re a young lady and looks pretty or a young lady who is in a state of disease and I may just be seeing kind of that essence of the disease as opposed to physical mumps or measel marks on their face. You know, there’s things like that

00:20:05 – 00:21:06
that are usually measured as you look and see somebody and say, “Well, who was it?” Well, it was a young lady. And I I know that it’s the young lady now. It didn’t matter at all that it was a young lady then. That was picking up on the soul energy of right. And in other words, here was a human being who had some receptivity. Didn’t matter how old didn’t matter how young. None of those things really matter. That’s not the priority. The priority was that here was some receptivity. Well, at just about

00:20:34 – 00:21:54
the same time that she was being uh abused, verbally, terribly verbally abused, uh manipulated, uh actually nudged and hit and shoved around, that type of thing. Uh threatened with her life by these hijackers. Uh this young lady naturally became very traumatized by the whole dilemma on board the plane. and then was coping with it as an oh my god situation as any of us probably would but then when she was singled out and I don’t mean singled out only on the plane but as her turn came to have her say in

00:21:15 – 00:22:35
other words in broken English there was one of the hijackers who did speak some English and the uh at least two others could speak no English so in gestures and so on in and one or two words of English uh you know give me your passport and where are you going and who are you um she was further traumatized and traumatized to the point that you and I might even go unconscious in other words I want to really establish that the the traumatic situation there for this young lady was paramount was extreme now

00:21:55 – 00:23:06
either as a result of her extreme trauma bio biochemically having her brain go into a trauma shocking experience which often deadens many of our perceptions. In other words, our five senses, it has a tendency to allow for the psychic reality or the psychic senses, the five and six senses to be activated or come into focus. In other words, if you’re so traumatized that you’re dizzy and you can’t see well, you may hear better. And then if you’re so traumatized that you are about to go unconscious, well,

00:22:31 – 00:24:04
that’s close enough to a near-death experience or um an extreme comeoma state or a meditative state. All of which often bring on or bring out uh psychic awarenesses. So I’m trying to establish a manyfold excuse or rationale why she became receptive at all to And it could have even been she was simply traumatized and strictly biochemically within herself with an absolute minimum degree of receptivity psychically to and toward my recognition that she is on board one of my planes. Uh in other words, her

00:23:17 – 00:24:42
recognition of any of that was minimal. And I mean I know that even now several years later. Another by no means did she at the time of this event or even as of a couple of years after this event have any recognition whatsoever of me Tom Sawyer or of another human being being psychically receptive to herself or even the dilemma that was taking place in the plane. Now, if I can dare speak for her, and this is an assumption of sorts with only a little bit of information, actual information, that in the circumstance

00:24:00 – 00:25:18
that I’m giving, uh, she was aware spiritually speaking that she was ultimately hugged spiritually. Now, I’m quite sure, as sure as I can be right now without knowing that this was a form of divine intervention. In other words, I don’t know what her own words would be to describe what I’m describing for her. In other words, if she had a perception of God at the time, then she probably would have said God. But I will share with you that I think that she had a very minimal perception of either Christ in

00:24:39 – 00:25:57
Christianity or God meaning, you know, in other words, the universal word God meaning a divine being. In fact, uh, as far as her religiosity, I think that it was quite minimal. And I’ll only say that so that I don’t really speak for her. So, the first time that she described as best she could recall this traumatic situation and her u being hugged spiritually, I’m using those words. Those were not necessarily her words. she probably would have used the word God or conceivably divine intervention

00:25:18 – 00:26:34
or something of that nature. I’m trying to make sure I emphasize that with no recognition whatsoever of another immortal human being aware telepathically of her dilemma situation. But in the worst scenario where they were then landed and I’m not even sure if it was because I know that they were heading toward Cairo airport but I don’t believe that it was at Cairo airport. might have been Elers or you know some other airport and the uh terrorists were demanding uh publicly their demands and if their

00:25:56 – 00:27:12
demands weren’t met such as immediately refueling the plane or the things that they were demanding that they would start shooting the passengers and this in fact took place uh and many of you might be recalling the incident that are taking place. It was a not a Jordanian, a U Egypt air. I’m I’m not even sure. I’m not even recalling right now because again, the brand name on the plane doesn’t matter. It’s a 737 to me. Um, right. And as a matter of fact, they they shot an Israeli woman through the

00:26:36 – 00:27:47
head and killed her and pushed her out down the the stairs were extended, but they just shoved her out the door and she landed in, you know, in a heat uh at the bottom of the stairs and u you know either was dead upon impact or died within a minute or so later being shot in the head. And then uh the next person that they chose was this young lady. And this young lady um didn’t really fight back, you know, didn’t struggle so much. Basically walked and went along with them down the aisle and then at the

00:27:12 – 00:28:32
uh front part of the airplane, they put the gun to her head and clicked it a couple of times and were just simply terrorizing her for no real ulterior motive, but the fanatical sensationalism of them being the terrorist that they were. In other words, external power. If you know anything about external power, it was a thrill and a delight for them psychotically, you might say, to um uh gain more of the sensational aspect to uh have additional external power by threatening and abusing this subordinate

00:27:50 – 00:29:21
of theirs. Back up a little bit. As I recall story, she She would overcome a feeling of a sense of peace that whether she lived or died, she’d be all right. Yeah. And the other thing was, did she witness the other lady being shot and she consciously thought, why is she moving? She consciously thought that if they did shoot her, she would stay very Yeah. And Okay. And and of course, you know, you have to understand that that I was receptive to all of all of that. Now, there’s all of those thought patterns

00:28:45 – 00:30:20
also. Now, in in her head, so to speak, because here we are talking for her and about her. Um, all of those thoughts were realized and dealt with, but at this There was a spiritual receptivity on her part that allowed her to be comforted by universal spiritual knowledge, universal spiritual love. In other words, a very high degree of unconditional love. Now, what I’m trying to do is purposely not say that I was instrumental in giving that to her. Although if you ask that was there any was I at all instrumental in giving any

00:29:33 – 00:31:02
of that to her I would have to say yes. But I don’t want to take full credit for either being or manipulating or anything of that matter because in other words, here’s the way of disqualifying myself is that if I had not made any clairvoyant a uh be clairvoyantly aware of the incident and telepathically uh at onement with her during that time, even if it was a one-way telepathic report, she would have been uh dealt with spiritually and been given the spiritual hug anyway. And the highest of probabilities

00:30:17 – 00:31:35
that that would have taken place every bit is as intensively and for the cause and effect relationship that took place in her story. In other words, as she would tell the story if she was sitting here with us. and it doesn’t disqualify any of her qualifications. It doesn’t diminish or pollute or dis disturb any of her claims as to what she experienced or didn’t experience. So in other words, um she received what was spiritually appropriate for her and that would have happened because just because yes

00:30:56 – 00:32:12
because because of she being who she was and or it is it is constantly automatically due everybody. This isn’t something you suddenly earn although you could use that same sentence in another dialogue. It’s available to everybody and it does not require another human being to facilitate that for you. It can come directly from the light. It can come from God. It is in the ethers. It is always there. Universal unconditional love is always there for every one of us all of the time. And only we pollute and

00:31:34 – 00:32:50
diminish oursel from that. And that if we simply stop doing that, we will automatically experience, we are already justified and qualified to experiencing that unconditional love which often is first perceived as this glorious hug or this everything is going to be okay or everything is okay. I mean here you are getting physically beat up and traumatized and threatened with a disgusting death and it can even that dilemma situation it can suddenly be okay as crazy as that sounds because again to question me further and say are you

00:32:12 – 00:33:17
saying that to be to know that you’re about to get shot in the head and killed you’re going to say that you know that well I’m about to be shot in the head and killed and it’s really okay the answer is yes and that takes place well she still realiz realized that she had to do with her own free will. In other words, her own basic free will to live the survival instinct as well as her conscious or superconscious awareness that this might be survivable. That methodically and physically she should do several things.

00:32:45 – 00:33:50
Certainly not agitate these terrorists any further because things will only get worse. And that if they shoot her once, she might not die. And that if they shoot her, no matter how or if they push her out of the door and not shoot her or miss, or if they do accomplish shooting her, that even though it is going to hurt, it is going to be terrible that she should just no matter what happens, submit. And I mean that just right out of the dictionary. Totally submit to her dilemma and allow them to shoot her if

00:33:17 – 00:34:30
they’re going to shoot her and just lie perfectly still in the hopes that they won’t shoot her twice or three times. And she had witnessed that the first shooting of the Israeli woman did not kill her initially. In other words, she was twitching. Well, between you and me, the first shot was fatal. But because she had any movement at all in her body, they purposely ran down the stairs and shot her a couple more times and uh and this young lady was aware of that. So she theorized that if she gets shot,

00:33:54 – 00:35:07
she should just play dead and lie perfectly still and she may survive that way. Well, the part that I really want to emphasize and talk about is that the initial uh receptivity allowed for and demanded of me. I mean, what would you do? So, it was it was that word demand is a terrible word, but it was just a prerequisite that my god, if a a beautiful young person or or a beautiful old person or young child is in jeopardy, would you not hug them? I mean, if you had the ability, would you not hug them? And if you’re 50,000 miles

00:34:30 – 00:35:28
away, you’d still hug them. I mean, you would say out loud, “I love you.” In spite of your dilemma, or know that I’m with you. I can’t do anything. I can’t hold my hand up in front of the gun. I can’t beat this terrorist up and and not have you be hurt, but while you are being hurt, I am um in empathy with you. Is that the I’m not sure that word. Yeah. In other words, at least in empathy with you. And there’s a degree of comfort in that to know that you’re

00:35:00 – 00:36:14
at least not totally alone, that somebody or something is aware of your dilemma. Because often times the trauma is emphasized and more traumatic or mostly traumatic by the loneliness aspect of it that you’re lost and you’re alone and that nothing or nobody can help you. And often times people then turn to God and God of course is ready, willing, and able to answer. So with that automatic divine intervention and with a degree most subtle degree of psychic receptivity there was that combination h

00:35:36 – 00:37:00
of that which she received from God and that which she may or may not have perceived from me. But in part of my salvation to dealing with this methodically and still being in tune with this terrible traumatic thing and not to pieces myself. Psychologically, uh the hug from me outwardly was actually returned instantly. In other words, to love outwardly, you will automatically instantly get the love back 10fold. So, that did take place. Now, as of this taping, one of the things that I want to say is that the young lady in question

00:36:19 – 00:37:36
um is in fact, that’s one of the reasons this subject came up today, is in fact uh within the Rochester area. And I mentioned this past evening to my wife Elaine that by no means am I in any kind of fear because I do at times question my faith, but I’m a very faithful person as I have a high degree of faith. Therefore, if it is to be that she either subconsciously, superconsciously, or on a conscious level becomes aware of a recognition of me being telepathically in tune with her during

00:36:57 – 00:38:23
that time frame. I would not wish for her ever to sensationalize that maybe it wasn’t God that hugged me. Maybe it was only Tom Sawyer that hugged me. I mean, that would be destructive. That would be not appropriate. And I would wish for that never to happen. I would actually wish for her to, in other words, would it not be better, you say it like that, would it not be better for her to never know that I was telepathically aware of her dilemma during her dilemma? clairvoyantly, psychically, or any other

00:37:39 – 00:39:02
way. Um, she and I met when I uh went on the Phil Donahue show in the summer of 88. And I met her in the hallway or in the uh very large area, the lobby of uh a very swanky hotel, the Swiss hotel in New York City. I don’t recall which one it is right now. And um uh I did not recognize her. I didn’t know her name. I thought that gee, have I met her before? In other words, right? I I knew that there was some degree of attachment or familiarity with that person. I’ve met over a 100,000

00:38:22 – 00:39:29
people. So, I kind of instantly passed it off. Well, maybe she’s been to a conference or something like that. or um maybe I you know I could have known her from a high school or something like that but it was not appropriate at the time to even question like walk up and say excuse me do you recognize me do I know you um there was no need for that at all so it was very very casual and only at such times she walked in I was already in the lobby sitting down and she walked in and sat a ways away from me and sat down and just sat

00:38:56 – 00:40:02
there as though she was waiting for Well, when the announcement came publicly that the the limousine for the Phil Donahghue show was here and that the uh people I forgot the words that he said, but you know, you know, he announced that the limousine was there and the uh what would you call the participants, that’s a good enough word. Thank you. The participants uh would could come to the car now. And as I stood up, she stood up. And and with that action, in other words, again, the association on my part

00:39:29 – 00:40:30
psychologically or, you know, logical deductive reasoning says, “Wait a minute. If she’s going to be on the same show, gee, is she a near-death experiencer?” Cuz see, I’ll have a tendency to actually identify other near-death experiencers without talking to them. In other words, in a crowded room, I may just recognize a certain little glow, if you will, or certain personality characteristic. How do we recognize charisma? All right. So, in that capacity, I may or may not recognize or I may recognize that she’s

00:40:00 – 00:41:05
a near-death experiencer. So, then I was a little bewildered and I thought, oh, wow, maybe I maybe I recognize her because she’s had a near-death experience or a near-death experience like I have. And again, didn’t make anything of it because you can get crazy about stuff like that. So, we got into the limousine and and we then sort of introduced each other and she um introduced herself and um she said um are you going to be on the show today? And then she said, “Did you have a near-death experience?” So, I just said,

00:40:32 – 00:41:40
“Yes, I did.” and it was just ordinary small talk on the way to the um studio which was only a few minutes ride. Now I was dealing with a Tom Sawyer type dilemma situation myself was privately and personally uh which doesn’t have to be part of this tape or the conversation but it was very extreme. So, my concentration was dealing with my own stuff and that why was I there on the show, what was probably going to take place and that I was going to talk about something other than near-death

00:41:06 – 00:42:21
experiences and I was going to use that opportunity to make public something that was extremely um worldly important and private and spiritually sensitive and so on and um uh militaristically secret. So, that’s what I was concentrating on. Well, just as we finally sat down just before the camera started, uh, she turned to me and of course, coincidentally, we sat side by side and she stated that she was very nervous because she had never been on national television before. So, I reached over and patted her hand and she

00:41:44 – 00:42:57
put her hand on top of my hand and then she said a few sentences and they were really very unconditionally lovely and a recognition of, “Oh, thank you very much.” And uh gee uh do you know this or do you know that and so on. And then as the story developed as the show started I then became aware of that she was the young lady aboard the plane and I had a little apprehension of confronting her. One of the thought processes that I had was that because I’ve been so openly involved publicly,

00:42:20 – 00:43:43
shall I say, in the scientific and medical research regarding my situation, near-death experiences and psychic, what people call phenomenon or phenomena. I thought, could it be that Bill Donahue, as clever as he is, knew of my circumstance somehow and knew of her circumstance and I was going to be confronted by my awareness of her situation and I was racing through my terrible memory because I always say consciously I have a very bad memory. I’m not good at remembering dates and anything a week ago might be a year ago,

00:43:02 – 00:44:08
a month ago in my perception. I have a difficult time with that. So, I was racing through my memory. My god, how much have I talked about that? Have I made any of this public? And if so, is this going to be am I going to be tricked into being embarrassed or something? And is she going to suddenly recognize me in some way? In other words, is she Jackie going to turn to me and say, “I know you and how can I know you?” or something of that nature. In other words, here I go questioning the

00:43:35 – 00:44:41
faith of all of this stuff and the reality of that, you know, if you are if you are full of love and if you are honest and if you are functioning honestly and lovely, I’ll say with love in your heart that that you can’t be afraid of things. You can’t be afraid of dilemmous situations. You can’t be afraid of in other words if I have to be identified with such a thing than it is to be and that I will be cared for. I may have to go through um social embarrassment. I have to may go through

00:44:08 – 00:45:22
uh paying the price of being popular, being famous. That’s been one of the things that I’ve had to deal with. And and it’s it’s all worth it. Notice in the long run it’s all worth it. So I was a little concerned about that. And then after the show, it was again just social fun time and we’ve parted ways and we haven’t communicated um subliminally telephonically by the telephone or super luminally telepathically. In other words, there’s been no obviously no need and certainly

00:44:45 – 00:45:55
no actuality, no receptivity on our part. And as I was dealing with this last night with Elaine and telling her for the first time because I have a tendency to keep some details from bothering Elaine all the time. She doesn’t need or want to hear every detail about everything. And I did want to at least caution her that if for instance uh Jackie came to Rochester knowing that that’s where I live, there might be a scenario where in the last couple of years she has become receptive to well to the like the the big story

00:45:22 – 00:46:31
the whole I don’t mean to say big story but you know every detail and that her receptivity as minimal as it was during the plane light and during her near-death experience, she may recognize me as just somebody that she needs to talk to. I mean, something of that nature. Uh, well, you know, you’re the audience right now and you’re you’re not your audience for that who may or may not listen to this tape. So, with that much, do you have any questions? See, let me interrupt because Carol and

00:45:56 – 00:47:04
Lynn, I know that you have heard bits and pieces of the story because in confident in confidentiality or in confidence. I’ve told you other details and so you know you’re aware of it but understand that making a videotape of this and we’re not even sure if we’ll ever show this tape publicly but if it comes to pass think in terms of somebody who is hearing this for the first time and that which I’ve stuttered and babbled about is there a question or something that they would typically need to clarify. Okay. I as a

00:46:30 – 00:47:43
Would a person always be consciously aware if they were reaching out to help someone on a subconscious level such as like say you and I meet for the first time and there’s that bonding feeling that there is a level that we know each other from what we know. Let me start to answer that. Where is there could be. I mean that’s a very important qualification. Where is there could be. And that’s fun and that’s usually nice and it can even be very sensational. It can it can also be a very important

00:47:06 – 00:48:31
stepping stone for you or me or the two or more people who are involved. Um, of the number of times that I have been receptive to such a situation, there is a majority of the times that there is not an awareness. In other words, part of the person you’re loving or on your part. um okay the numbers of times okay and let me just pick a number so it’s easy math this is not an accurate number at all but if I have done this the we hours of the morning at work and others clairvoyantly with a profound awareness

00:47:49 – 00:49:24
or almost no awareness at all in other words what do I know that I’ve done of 100 times I would say that there would be uh 80 times that I did not know any measurable detail. A recognition of human form, a recognition of names, a recognition of the effect, the short-term or the long-term effect, and that I am in service of and desirous of just being available for the promulgation of love for the in bear with me. If I call myself a lover, I I wish to I wish to improve my life by way of love. I wish to be as

00:48:37 – 00:49:50
unconditional lovely as I can possibly be. Now, if Elaine was here in the room, she’d say, “Oh, yeah. Well, I wish you’d do a better job. I’m still normal to a vast degree. I fight and argue. I have mood swings.” All right. But my preference is to be more unconditionally lovely than to be more normal. God bless the normaly of this day. So to link that up with your recent article in the newsletter. No, perfect. And let me let me interrupt you because that’s a very good thought. And what that means is in

00:49:13 – 00:50:21
our sleep state, are we working and are we accomplishing grandioso sensational things that we would love to have stories to tell the next day and not remember? Yes. In other words, do I do that and have no recognition at all of where have I been and what have I done? Yes, that’s true. and and a majority of us function on that more frequently. a greater number of times in fact function that way and never have an experience that say gee I wish I could have experience where I knew the person to

00:49:48 – 00:51:08
whom I was in other words I knew the receptivity or I knew I had um a list of names my prayer my personal prayer list and I scan with my eyes uh I I often do this by the way in others I have spiral notebooks and some and sometimes hundreds of names that I will wish to scan and then not have any recollection or any measurement at all as to um accomplishments. Shall I say accomplishment or love or facilitations or the cause and therefore the effect at all? In other words, I will spend many hours of the night awake

00:50:30 – 00:51:51
fervently praying or doing my own time so personal shanties as I jokingly call them or being in the midst of a Christmas candle light healing service and not get feedback. See, we have to be in love with ourselves enough to know that we don’t need rewards. We don’t have to. We should not wish for rewards. I have to admit that it is rewarding to have recollections at times at least. And it is rewarding to know of actualities or facilitations. I mean, I have to be honest and I I do love verification. I

00:51:10 – 00:52:21
love confirmation of things that I have been aware of. I often have to wait years or I have in the past had to wait years to have a singular minuscule mundane event justified, clarified, and confirmed. And I enjoy that when it happens. I love it when somebody sends me a newspaper article that Tom, this is from the Middle East and it was never shown in the UPS or Associated Press, but uh a friend of mine came from Italy and in the Italian paper they had this little article that verified something

00:51:46 – 00:53:17
that I clearly was aware of in the Middle East or or anywhere. And this particular subject, this was the only person that you met that you in the flesh and That never occurs or doesn’t often occur that two souls that have linked together on that level for the help of one for the other that you actually physically that’s all right as this event took place. Now, there’s a time frame because we’re talking about a few years ago to go on a TV show and have coincidentally Well, the word coincidence is still in

00:52:34 – 00:54:04
the dictionary. I mean coincidentally or synchronistically to to be physically confronted by her presence and again have no recognition as I would wish for it to be and all in all I would actually wish for it to be have no recognition then have to then deal socially and psychologically and in what I I’ll just say realitywise to um have her million and one questions be answered or or me to have a m you know a 100 questions to her that would then be appropriate. See at that point in time it is not appropriate

00:53:19 – 00:54:32
to then say oh never mind I don’t deal with that or I um I can’t deal with this on this level those coverall statements. It would not be appropriate if she said, “Tom, were you aware of me on that plane that day?” I have to first of all, I’m honest. So, I would say I might even, you know, hesitate a little bit, but I would say yes. And typical of me, I might even say, “Well, can I first ask you why are you asking this question?” But if I said that, I would certainly listen to her

00:53:56 – 00:55:04
her need because I might not be aware of her actual need for asking the question because in other words is does she know that I was aware of her and is she now asking the question to just see if I’ll say yes or how I’ll answer that because if I’m aware that she just needs to have that confirmation yes and the conversation might end there because she might be developed enough and receptive and responses and responsible enough to have no more But usually, I mean, let’s get realistic and what is normal now for

00:54:32 – 00:55:40
somebody to suddenly realize this, they would probably have a 100 questions and then actually have a need to not just have a straightforward confirmation the answer is yes, but yes. Well, what did you experience? I mean, I know what took place on that plane and and I haven’t told the whole story. Now, can you tell me something that took place on a plane that I’m too embarrassed to or or that I have not that I’ve not made public at all? So others it may even require what I call game you know sometimes I refer

00:55:05 – 00:56:25
as games a oneupsmanship or that you know the psychic games that well prove to me that it’s real and that I might have to um for instance say some personal thought patterns that she had that were either so intimate and personal that she would never make public. And I mean that happened to my wife Elaine when um I’m I’m lost for her name right now, but somebody from London Marggo Gray Marggo Gray from London, England coincidentally, and of course I’m smiling so I say now in hindsight

00:55:46 – 00:56:56
synchronistically just happened to come all the way to the University of Connecticut and be there coincidentally on the day that Elaine was able to come with me for the first time and meet Kenneth Ring and Dr. Keith Ring and so on and that her mind was just blown and that she was just it was the first time that Elaine had ever had any kind of direct dealing with psychic anything from a stranger from somebody that could not possibly know Elaine because she even was from London, England and that she did a real psychic number on read

00:56:20 – 00:57:31
shall I dare say reading Elaine and she gave her personal and private information that Ela had never even told me. She made reference to a very young age, a toy. Uh I mean, I don’t recall the exact things, but enough things that it was it was verified in me Wayne’s mind. So, people need that at times in the right time. And I think that I’m as well prepared. And again, see, here I go again with the normal me saying I should really be prepared for all these scenarios. The truth of the matter is,

00:56:56 – 00:58:06
no, I don’t have to be. I mean, that’s not like I don’t have to be. It’s no, I don’t really have to be because, you know, you can make a what a profound statement that God works in strange ways or that I don’t really have to be because as long as I am honest and as long as I am working from my heart, I don’t really feel as though I can be harmed. Now, by that I mean devastated. In other words, I can have a scenario where my wife Elaine will question my uh not just my efficacy but my uh

00:57:31 – 00:58:37
faithfulness. In other words, like being married and being monogamous. She might say, “Gee, I didn’t know that when you stayed five days in Florida, you stayed at a chick’s house.” In other words, a a lovely young lady, a 26-year-old fox. In other words, a very sensuous sexual person. and I know you travel all over and I have great faith in you, but gee, she’s gorgeous. And it’s normal and typical to be protective and so on and make uh assumptions and and question. In other words, to doubt people and

00:58:04 – 00:59:25
question even if it’s your spouse that you know and love very well and very in other words, if after 25 years of marriage and even still and it might even be exciting. It might even be um the fear of the worst scenario that oh my god I just don’t want you ever to cheat on me or something like that. Based on those things it’s um it’s good to have recognition and verification and uh then sort out the actuality the uh details of uh well I didn’t think it was necessary or even go

00:58:44 – 00:59:52
through that again, mood swings and so on, which I’ve already admitted that I go through if I’m in a doubting mood. I mean, my name is Tom, even though it’s not Thomas, it’s Tom. And I am a a Virgo. I had to stop to think what I am this time. That leads to what our next part of our Yeah. Hopefully either the next half of this tape or the next tape will be a real zinger on reincarnation. Uh, I’m making a lot of progress toward publicizing Tom Sawyer’s point of view on reincarnation. And I think that I will

00:59:21 – 01:00:42
need an outline to stick to the subject and and do well. Um, yeah, the latest book that I’ve read, the seat of the soul, which is u very good. I might even make an outline of that book and then use the outline of that book to then use the author’s phrases and the author’s uh discussion and and points of view of uh faith, honesty, reincarnation and reverence. Why is reverence so important if you want to talk about reincarnation? Because reverence, you might have been a horrible heinous

01:00:01 – 01:01:29
person in another lifetime and you had no reverence at all. And why are you so reverent this time? Or cause and effect relationship is even the aspect of that there is such a thing as a direct past life that you were a human being years ago and that you are certainly a human being in whatever gender and capacity and so on that you are at this time. Uh what about all that? wanting to sort of wrap this up for the moment. Maybe who knows, but what sort of feelings do you have today or lessons you have to learn or whatever in just in

01:00:50 – 01:02:16
having this experience connection? What? How to help people who are again just to capsize it was first of all because of my receptivity because clairvoyantly I was not just a movie camera. I mean I experienced a lot and and it was sensational. I mean a story like that, you know, I don’t have to describe to you. It was sensational. It was traumatic to a degree because, you know, I don’t want to give somebody the impression that I would suffer as much as she did being receptive to her dilemma. That would not be appropriate

01:01:33 – 01:03:09
to say, but there is some degree of acknowledgement or experience of the degree of trauma that she went through. And since I was receptive to that and I experienced a degree of trauma, uh I didn’t take on all of her pain. No, but um also became spiritually intimately aware of another person. In other words, I have a tendency to see people meet new people and be quite unconditional because I don’t need to know if they’re a murderer or a priest or just a lover or or being in such a dilemma situation very unlovingly

01:02:22 – 01:03:31
or I I don’t need to know that. But here was a situation where it it was very beautiful and I mean almost all of those scenarios there is a recognition of the love of another soul because on that level the fact that you use the word soul there’s glory in that there’s beauty in that there’s love in that so am I better off to have met anybody of course and this is just another example it’s a sensational example to givebody you knowbody know anybody somebody uh viewing this tape and

01:02:56 – 01:04:02
yourself that knows to sensationalize something then you can say well what does this have to do with me and it does have to do with you because this is available to everybody and the first step to having this glorious Tom Sawyer type sensational experiences on an ongoing basis is to start simply very simply very simply loving yourself you love yourself so much that you forgive yourself for any and all of your inadequacies and then you continue to love yourself enough that the overabundance of that love can then be

01:03:30 – 01:04:33
shared outwardly. And I’ve said that many times, but it’s very important. That’s all that is required than an automatic receptivity. There will be a probability of psychic awareness. There will be a greater probability of being able to love the person that you hated the most in the last several years. And I mean truly love. I mean really respect and love. you will still dislike their character and their characteristic that you hate. I hate the way he talks. I hate the way he interrupts. I hate his

01:04:01 – 01:05:04
physical obesity. I hate All right. And I don’t like the word hate. You can dislike immensely, but try not to hate. Um, and you can still dislike any and all of those characteristics or the overall character of a person or the personality of a person. You can dislike the personality. That doesn’t mean that you have to or that you should like the personality. Either a characteristic, all of the characteristics, and all of the characteristic characteristics do not totally make up the personality.

01:04:33 – 01:05:47
There’s more to a personality than just all of the characteristics. We’ll talk about that later. But you can dislike the personality, but you cannot and you should not. You can psychologically tell yourself you do not, but you cannot really and all of the different levels. You cannot, you should not dislike the soul. And the worst murderer, the child rapist, the insane personality, the obnoxious character, the obnoxious intolerable characteristics of the person that you did hate. You have the

01:05:10 – 01:06:18
capability rather instantaneously of loving a portion of them. loving their light, loving that little one or two gleams because some people, you know, are pretty lowly characters. Again, big characters, excuse me. And you can love that light. And when you’re able to love everybody in whatever degree, in other words, I’m just learning this and I want to do it. And I really tried to love Mr. or a madam or Mrs. or that jerk that has done so much harm to me in my life and I want to try to love him but I just

01:05:44 – 01:07:04
can’t. Well, just think in terms of that there is one little gleam of light in that person and that on that microscopic level, on that spiritual level, that that’s what you can love because there’s no identification at all with a single beleam of light, that little particle of the soul with this temporary lifetime obnoxious characteristic or personality that that person and realize that we are judgmental and that we are functioning as you are viewing this tape and as we are sitting here talking this way, we are judgmental

01:06:25 – 01:07:54
and we are seeing that you are so pretty in pink and that I love the multitude of colors of your outfit and your personality. I like Lynn. Okay. Even Lynn um that that I have a certain instantaneous recognition of Lynn’s character and her personality that is so much like a sister to me simp a single word a sister to me. Whereas the gorgeous 26-year-old foxy chick I may very probably see as a very sensuous sexual characteristic of her being as her name might be Jan and Jan is a very gorgeous physical being

01:07:09 – 01:08:40
very sensuous and sexual looking and whereas Lynn is a woman and sexual in that nature in others in gender and so on I can see a more open automatic rapport rel relation relationship that she is my sister and that god forbid we ever get sensuous or sexual together. Okay, not not this afternoon. But uh but to see the differentiation and that’s normal and that’s okay. But in that very sensuous hypothetical Jan person that is her physical characteristic that’s not her soul. her soul is identical to Lynn’s soul and

01:07:54 – 01:09:10
and in that capacity and and I suppose I should even brag and say I mean you know because I so hesitantly brag I I brag so much in my life I have to be careful of how much I brag but I should it’s righteous to brag and say that I have the ability to whatever degree let’s just say a little bit compared to God or the Christ a little degree of being able to see the soul, the the enlightened, the light, the gleams of light, the soul in Lynn, equal and unobtrusively and unconditionally to the hypothetical Jan

01:08:32 – 01:09:47
or you or anybody else. And uh very recently Elaine has been having a my wife Elaine has been having a greater recognition of the feasibility of that or the actuality of that that and it’s not to oh Tom is greater than I because he can actually see or experience you know it’s not that it’s that Elaine is dealing with the feasibility or the reality of such a thing and that if I can be that or do that well God bless that’s nice and that Elaine in her own thinking say well gee this might be

01:09:10 – 01:10:23
available to me and it’s a good thing not a bad thing but not a one-upsmanship or a superior subordinate no and that’s not the way to try to perceive such a thing that for you to be equal or superior you have to therefore just be careful of that love yourself unconditionally first and that the personality that you are might dictate by its very nature nature that you are not to be in recognition of some of these things and that this is the very reason that you are in this incarnation in this personality or your

01:09:46 – 01:11:23
personality or my personality to facilitate and function and learn in that capacity and that it might very well be that I am incarnate right now to be a teacher to somebody like you or Jan or Lynn or anybody. Or it may be that I need to be this in a mundane earthly average condition and to have the I don’t want to say abilities but to have the knowledge to have the knowledge of what I know and my the knowledge of my potential to be so much better than I am or so much worse than than I am and have

01:10:34 – 01:12:33
the free will option of being better or worse than I am and at the same time knowing that that is my character and personality and I’m fully responsible for all of that. But I am equally guided by and loved by my true being. By that I mean my real being, my greater reality being, my soul self, my soul, the light that I am aggregation of, you know, there’s that little particle of divinity within me that I am. I can then forgive, love, deal with, have mood swings and still be okay and still look forward to

01:11:33 – 01:12:58
that that ultimate desire on my part, that ultimate reality that everybody will come to know of the transformation to get rid of this physical self, get rid of all of my character and characteristics, and ultimately get rid of my personality. In other words, cease to be Tom Sawyer and become only light. It may require another death, may require more than one death, may require a near-death experience in being revived, and it may require a secondary natural death to be that or become that or to get that reward. Here we go again with

01:12:18 – 01:13:48
rewards. I find the the story or not story the experience that you had and shared with us this afternoon very comforting from the point of view of Jackie that if we find ourselves in a dilemma we have this wonderful option to reach up spiritually and we’re always all the spiritual hugs are available for each and every one of us, right? And and a hesitation or a fear on some people’s part is I can’t do it or I’m not worthy or there’s nobody out there or is there really a God? Well, if you are stuck in

01:13:04 – 01:14:22
the personality and have the characteristic of there is no God, well then damn it, there are personalities that can hug you on whatever level you’re functioning at. There is company And there is also equal company that has the desire the instantaneous uh wish and desire and availability and the the facilitation of giving you that hug and that you all you might need is a hug from somebody on your level or your level and that that will then be able to say, “Oh my god, this is real.” And the

01:13:43 – 01:14:25
little window or the little door that is above you or beyond you or more intensively or more subtly will give you a perception of gee there’s not only a real hug on this level that makes it feasible that there’s a god. Wow. Thank you.