Tom Sawyer talked about channeling, teaching, and love. Recorded in January, 1989. Duration: 2 hours. (30 pages)

 

Raw Transcript:

00:00:46 – 00:02:24
And I guess our first subject for today will be channeling. And may I ask you, do you channel? Uh, generally no. In other words, where do you I I guess you could uh you could interpret that two different ways. Do you channel entities that come through you for information or are other human beings able to channel your energy right first of all as far as I am concerned um it might sound like a contradiction because from my near-death experience I have and I’ll use the word channeled information from total knowledge notice

00:01:34 – 00:02:51
the the aacic record the isness of the now the the existence of total knowledge always somewhere. So if I have retained any of that even though in time I got it back then in 1978 right and then from specific and of course since individuals are deceased entities such as physicists and so on. In other words I have on many occasions quoted exactly sentences that I have heard with my spiritual ears. Okay. But am I doing this now or tomorrow? The answer is no. I’m not channeling from any of those sources.

00:02:13 – 00:03:22
That’s regarding me personally. Um and yet information again to use the word channel as in the dictionary. Um have I chneled this information from uh spiritual sources? And in that relationship, yes. So people have quoted me as saying, “Well, Tom got this information from Warner Heisenberg back in the 1930s.” Okay. So in that respect, I would even give into that that could be considered a form of channeling. But now, realistically, the type of channeling that we’re mostly interested today in

00:02:47 – 00:04:07
this conversation is that either from deceased entities or from entities that have never been embodied or incarnate. And uh there are many cautions that I want to or a few cautions that I want to address right now for the general public for anybody listening and including addressing people who are claiming andor are actually uh channeling uh as far as are there very close friends and people around the uh earth alive and well today uh who are channeling me. In other words, am I allowing myself to be chneled? In other

00:03:28 – 00:04:50
words, a receptivity on my part to love and to share in that way. And that therefore, are there people who are receptive enough or receptive in general to uh be willing or able to receive that which I channel? Generally, the answer is no. Um there are attachments I that’s not the best word attachment or shall I just say intimate awarenesses of me in several dream states and by that I I mean several individuals who while dreaming normally dreaming in their sleep state have uh been receptive subliminally

00:04:08 – 00:05:30
superlimally even um uh partially psychic ally even because again what is a dream state now it’s it’s a subconscious uh uh mostly psychological uh working of the brain okay and in those capac people have been asleep in a in a sleep state they have uh had my image appear to them and some of my conversations and so on and their personalized awareness of my existence have come to them in a sleep state that is not the same as channeling and and catch people on the dream level even sometimes without your awareness

00:04:49 – 00:06:01
such as a lot of people say that Dan appears in their dream teach through the priesthood or whatever not always that he’s aware but that that is valid but as far as channeling um one of my understandings I don’t claim to be an expert on channeling at all because I haven’t done it mechanically and so many of the things that that I might even represent spiritually speaking. I don’t do they happen to me, you know. Whoa, I can cover my ass on that. But, uh, seriously now, in channeling, I I don’t even claim

00:05:26 – 00:06:35
to be an expert on the mechanics of it and so on. Um, I’ve never seriously tried to do that. I don’t think it would be good for me at all. Um, I question the mechanically if I were able to do that. There is a possibility of that, even a probability. Um I think that the trade-off is personally I’m comfortable that I will either receive that which I need rather than to desire or even uh greedily or egotistically attach myself to any particular source and gain insights or knowledge or whatever from

00:06:00 – 00:07:21
that. Um several individuals close friends from in fact really all around the world. So there are several who have intuitively or in a dream state uh gained a little joy or peace or bits and pieces of information from a sleep state and a few people have in a meditative state uh a form of a med pure meditation I don’t agree that that this would take place but I mean an intensive meditation this would not be possible but in a meditative type state uh again my image or their desire for my image will have

00:06:40 – 00:07:55
appeared to individuals that this has already happened and probably will happen in the near future and uh that’s okay and they desire this and uh um that which I represent it’s okay for that to come to those people but as far as claiming that that would be a channeling of Tom Sawyer I would actually like to disclaim uh that type of thing. First of all, I don’t think that I would be receptive to that. I mean, just the philosophy behind that, I wouldn’t like that. Maybe I’m too selfish. Looking into the future,

00:07:20 – 00:08:40
which I know this is not an uncomfortable subject for you um in uh the time when you look forward to passing over into spirit. What is the date? today when you’re no longer in a body and with us, Tom, which I know you’ll be joyous at the time, although I’m not sure that’s how we’ll feel about it. Um, I don’t know if you can even answer this question. Will the essence or soul of Tom Sawyer be able to um channel through anyone on the planet? Uh, I will try to answer that. It might

00:08:00 – 00:09:16
be an ambiguous answer. There would be the highest improbability of me from the other side channeling to and toward anybody at all or even a group of individuals the very highest improbability. I’m saying it like that because not only is there always a possibility of anything, you know, and it would be foolhardy for me to say that under no circumstances would I, Tom Sora, allow me to channel from the other side. Uh, no, realistically, I can even think of some examples, which no sense sharing

00:08:37 – 00:09:51
them with you. Uh now but the highest of improbabilities would be that this would either be allowed by me or that it would be facilitated never mind cause and effect that either permission is required or a duality receptivity say from me to you and you being receptive and me being receptive that type of thing. uh because receptivity is usually the twofold the duality that there has to be an allowance for the source to share and then the receptivity mechanically the receptivity of the uh the channel

00:09:14 – 00:10:33
that right vibration right um yeah there there’s several other cautions too regarding that and that again because I want to touch on responsibility if a person is channeling And never mind uh to what intensity or how valid is it a bonafide channeling situation of a particular entity or a group situation group entities or um because these sentences that I’ve said in the past in the early 80s um I made reference to the group. Now in in the last 11 years there have been three groups I’ll use that ambiguous phrase so

00:09:54 – 00:11:24
that I don’t identify particular individuals but one of the groups was a group of physicists all of whom had passed on. Now what I was doing was using a a title or a sentence u saying that some of the physics that I have been received an influx of sudden awareness and influx of with the u explicit detail know some formulas some uh names, places, dates, things like that uh including precognitions of sorts because they require the basis of that which was discovered from the 30s up to the the 60s and u in that group uh were

00:10:40 – 00:11:56
such individuals such as Warner Heisenberg, Nells Boore, uh Albert Einstein uh several individuals So ambiguously, no, I was not channeling from any one of them or exclusively this clickish group. And yet I use the sentences that this information is from the group. All right, I just want to clarify that if in a book I think that it might be in heading toward Omega or at least the inference that some of that information uh has come from the group. Well, no, I was not channeling the group. But responsibility. If a person

00:11:18 – 00:12:43
is channeling, first of all, I’ll use the example that if the the source of their channeling is from an entity that is nondescript and has never been embodied or incarnate. In other words, this is from uh Om and uh you know in the euphoric uh celestial body of and I’m not being sarcastic. I’m saying that is all ambiguous phrases that have never been documented in history before and that this is my source. Um and I’m not being ambiguous. So I’ll say la. So, you know, I am being um a little

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sarcastic saying things like that. But now toward the validity of that, somebody honestly even thinking that they are doing this rightfully so or or um in other words with uh thinking that the highest of intentions with a great deal of efficacy. Thank you. they uh in the process of doing this they have to understand that the perceptions and the knowledge of that entity and I’ll use the phrase entity which in other use your own phrase if it mean if you call it the source or what whatever the title is for the the the

00:12:42 – 00:14:23
source of your channeling uh that source is not usually based or grounded or from total knowledge. In other words, other than God or the light, not the light of this entity, I mean the light singularly. Um, the entities may or may not have real information available to them. if they know a lot about this subject or that subject or even if that source claims to be in touch with total knowledge, that’s one of the catchphrases or ideas that you should immediately throw your caution flag up to because the only

00:13:32 – 00:14:48
source that I am aware of that is in tune with at onement with total knowledge is God or the light. Right? So any entity whether they’re in a body or out of a body could be inaccurate in their information is probably inaccurate regarding certain information. In other words, they may very well be an expert on cooking or quantum physics or or in other words a spiritual path, a mechanical way of attaining this or that or the other thing. And I’m not taking that away from that source. But there is

00:14:11 – 00:15:34
a tendency that I have noticed and that has been brought to my attention where individuals are channeling and are creating this image of my source is uh a rampa or a um an individual or a a ze or right or any of those things. I don’t mean a stereotype but but they assume that all the information is perfectly accurate when as I told you before a friend of ours dear friend Rose once said if you’re a banana in a body you’re still a banana when you don’t have a body that perhaps although they eat they

00:14:52 – 00:16:14
could their heart they have a heart I mean they could be in the the right frame of mind to be trying to be helpful and they could be very helpful but They also could be devious or they could be inaccurate or or Yeah. No, it’s just the realization that um the source of the knowledge and I’m emphasizing the the word they um or their t h e i r their source for their knowledge in all probability is not from the light. It may even stem from the light, but it is not the light. And that like our

00:15:33 – 00:16:35
human condition, no matter how hard we try, we’re not perfect. Yeah. And and no matter like I am, by the way, the best bulldozer operator in the world, but I have made mistakes, believe it or not, right? Uh I mean that type of thing. In other words, I could very well be the best bulldozer operator, but there will be mistakes made in the operation of the machine. uh if it be the inner reaction of me running the machine, the machine breaks down or if the machine is doing its mechanical thing and I’m not in a

00:16:04 – 00:17:09
good mood or whatever, I’m not receptive. There’s going to be inaccuracies and it’s not perfection. So, it goes right back to whether you’re taking class in a classroom from a teacher or whether you’re sitting down over a cup of coffee with someone or you’re listening to someone channel, you have to listen to the information and see if it rings true for yourself and not blindly believe everything. Oh, right. That’s that’s responsibility of the individual. Uh and further than that, what I want to really

00:16:36 – 00:17:53
advocate or or yell out loud right now is the responsibility of the person doing the channeling to be aware of that, right? Because a little bit of ego, a little bit of greed goes an awful long way in failing your personal my personal or anybody who’s channeling the responsibility of reality. I’ll say for lack of a better word of reality. And the reality is is that there is a great possibility and even a probability of inaccuracies in any of the stuff. Is it possible? I know that’s what people are thinking

00:17:15 – 00:18:26
when they’re listening to a channeler that the channeler is really able to put aside their ego personality self 100%. I don’t believe that. I’m saying believe because as opposed to answering you that can’t happen, I’m saying that I don’t know that as knowledge. And I mean I would be very interested in seeing or hearing that or having it proved to me. Um, I don’t think that that’s possible because I know with the situations that have happened to me spiritually that there are

00:17:50 – 00:19:01
characteristics of Tom Sawyer mixed in with that instantaneously. In other words, if it has to mechanically go through from the athetherical or the spiritual into this physical body, the brain working out the mouth, the way you pronounce your S’s is not the same as the next person. Right? And if you’re talking about person or entities, that which the entity pronounces the s’s is not the same as we might. So there is a a translation, there is a distortion. The way of perceiving it uh

00:18:25 – 00:19:55
maybe a little bit healthier is that there is always some degree of distortion. If it being the the the uh fallibility of the English language and that um I say entity and she or he says another says the word source. Yeah. And what’s in a word and yet words are very important. Those fine details and can make a difference make a difference. Um I fervently believe that we individuals for ourselves that if we are going to a series of classes in other words it’s a teaching system any system

00:19:10 – 00:20:17
uh series of classes or workshops that that which we need or that which we desire or both and hopefully they’re the same uh we will receive. And if you missed it this time, you’ll usually get a second chance. If it’s, oh, this lecture series is only going to be here this time and you miss it because you can’t afford it or you didn’t go or you were in the hospital or any of that, you will be given another chance. In other words, I really don’t believe that that which is spiritually a

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necessity or spiritually by way of free will and desire of the individual because that becomes important spiritually even if if it be formulated from the physical reality. Does the ego me the I wish to accomplish this this and this. Those goals can be from the physical environment and strictly the physical apparatus of my brain. And therefore intellectually I want to I want to learn this or learn that. Okay. Even if it be in that way, you will be provided with not only those opportunities but the probability of

00:20:23 – 00:21:38
enough information, the correct information from more than one source. So uh regarding channeling often times a person uh uses the exclusiveness of their source or I am the only channeler of Om. And you know maybe I shouldn’t say that phrase because that that was mantra given to somebody. So if I’ve offended anybody by by saying that phrase because you know how with tongue and cheek I say an shanti which means anything either psychic or spiritual and I say that with love in my heart and I

00:21:00 – 00:22:15
don’t mean to offend anybody with a a similar sounding when you talk about doing Yeah. You’re serious about it. Yeah. because that that has a very serious side and equally um a tongue and cheek dry humor side. I think the fun thing about these interviews is that we always our sense of humor. Yeah. And hopefully that that can be portrayed. Yeah. You know through us. Yeah. That um again there are some things in nature that are so serious that all you can do is laugh. Then you can go into Chinese proverbs. It’s a uh

00:21:37 – 00:22:50
since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or evil, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter. And that’s nice. Elaine still can’t quite handle that. We have to I told her when you are able to honestly laugh at that and with that little phrase, then you will have progressed. And it’s not saying that she is not progressing, not being able to laugh. That’s a beautiful part of it. So, you know, no offense in getting we talking about

00:22:14 – 00:23:32
responsibility. Why don’t we get into the responsibility of teaching in general? A lot of our our listeners and watchers are in the teaching area. Are there any of us who are not? That’s true. Again, you know what’s in a phrase? You know, if you teach a class, that makes you a teacher, but if you smile at somebody, you’re a teacher. Okay. So, go ahead. Yeah. So, when somebody comes to you either in a general class situation or a one-on-one over coffee and you’re bubbling with all this information

00:22:52 – 00:24:06
like where is your responsibility in in unloading something on something? Uh, that’s one of the few difficult parts of who I today. It’s difficult because I always want to share everything. My big mouth proves it. the the longevity of some of my talks. Um, yeah, I have a desire to share everything with everybody and at times I say an uncontrollable desire and that’s not fair to say that of me because the attitude of an uncontrollable desire. In other words, I really fervently want to

00:23:30 – 00:24:56
tell everybody everything all at once that sharing aspect of it. But now the responsibility of that that should not and cannot happen. I’m not talking mechanically. I’m saying that it is really uh not fair. It is not spiritually correct. There are information that are sequential in their importance and their intensity. In other words, uh, does a person have to have math to use quantum physics? Well, if they’re going to do that as employment at a research center, yes, you have to have calculus and other

00:24:13 – 00:25:25
things to speak the language to do the the to key the computer uh keyboard and have it legible by other physicists. that commonality, that language. Um, I I shouldn’t have said that. I I I’m sorry. I just I just went just went to a research center. Totally interrupted myself. Wow. Uh, see, I told you I don’t do that. It just happens to me. My goodness. Um, okay. Bring me back on track, please. We’re talking about teaching someone and being sure that they’re ready for the information that

00:24:50 – 00:25:55
you’re Yeah. offering. Um that which you can tell and teach a young child, you probably would not tell or teach the adult. And that which you refrain from the last couple of chapters because it’s only a young child or a novice. That’s a beautiful word, novice, because it’s not offensive. And it can mean that you are ignorant. It can mean that you’re just starting out on something that is very beautiful and very intensive. But if you’re just starting out, you are a novice and you can’t know the

00:25:23 – 00:26:48
intensity. So how exciting are you to have read that first book or how excited are you to hear the first uh sentences of truth or or spiritual reality? So yeah, we have a great deal of responsibility. I have so many good examples of things that I have been very very physically frustrated and mentally frustrated that I had to say sentences. I had to teach things. I had to share information with oh groups, research centers. Uh Ken Ring when he was writing his book. I mean, if you’ve read that

00:26:05 – 00:27:17
book recently and you u know you know me as well as you do and you can kind of pick out sentences that are Tom Sawyer sentences. Well, I’m heading toward Omega because I started thumbming through it recently and there are many many sentences that I flatly refuse Ken Ring to identify me with. So generally when it says another near-death experiencer said that was I wanted to share the information of that sentence but I couldn’t either identify myself as the source of that sentence or that

00:26:40 – 00:28:08
information or there were other the last two chapters of that information could not be told in 1982 so that by 1984 many people will have read it and it would have spoiled if you will the essence of the chapter that was finalized and thank God was changed in 1988 and of course you know I’m using an example that I know was in heading toward omega of the nuclear detonation now I had knowledge of the two possibilities I’ll say for now too the two possibilities of the outcome of that If that nuclear detonation was to have

00:27:25 – 00:28:29
taken place, it would have been as you could well imagine and I mean I don’t want to go into the the scenario because it didn’t turn out to be that and it and again how fruitful is it to say what would the scenario have been plus it would be too upsetting to me. So as it did turn out that we collectively I mean mankind not Tom Sawyer not a a small group of near-death experiencers who were who were so receptive and so on were very instrumental in dealing with that in other words I don’t want to make it

00:28:00 – 00:29:19
on a small scale and the the collective scale there was enough enough individuals enough positive energy enough love enough manipulation I I mean the special forces the um the marine special forces that did the mechanical part of it if you will and that was all necessary and thank god it all took place and and history has been written much better because of it. Um so how much do you teach? Well, hopefully you teach enough to stimulate uh stimulate the desire for the last couple of chapters uh to give enough

00:28:38 – 00:29:52
truth to to create validity and to in effect create truth and that in your teaching you always base it in truth. Now if you give an analogy say this is an analogy and if you ever say the word I then qualify it and saying I this or I that or I wish to portray and there’s nothing wrong with saying uh that well this happened to me but let me exaggerate it to give you the point I’m trying to make you know be as honest as you can. If somebody asks you a direct question that Sometimes you have to

00:29:18 – 00:30:16
understand exactly what the question is. Like the little boy that says, “Where did I come from?” And the mother tells him all about birth and he goes, “Oh, I thought I came from Chicago.” But once you’re clear about what the question really is and you have the answer, what I what I get upset with is when the teacher will say, “Well, you’re not ready for that.” But if you’ve asked the question, “Aren’t you ready for the answer?” Yeah, that’s a difficult

00:29:47 – 00:31:09
straight up um the different intensities and from the different sources that you individually are ready. Intellectually, you’re ready. Physically, you’re ready. How dare any teacher claim that he or she can see in you that you are not spiritually ready? That’s a pretty harsh thing to claim. And yet, that happens all of the time. I mean I have done that. Thank God. I mean I have been able to see in someone that they are ready as far as they are concerned and it may only be one aspect of their self their

00:30:28 – 00:31:38
ether their self their spiritual self their physical any one portion of it one or more portion that they are not ready and I think generally it’s wrong to simply say you’re not ready for the answer. See, that leaves them hanging, right? And and I can think of a few circumstances where they need to be straightforward, blunt, and say that to an individual and and that effect will stimulate their desire to learn more rather than to just put them down. But often, maybe a majority of the times that that’s said,

00:31:03 – 00:32:13
and I’m guilty of having said that to a few people, uh that that leaves them dejected, and that’s not good teaching either. So even though I might have the greatest source in the world for the information, my teaching ability can be improved always. And that’s a caution. A good point that you brought up. Um there’s another aspect to that that I want to say. Um just repeat that part of the question. Notice okay if someone asks you a question, you have the right responsibility to say you’re

00:31:38 – 00:33:09
not. Yeah. uh still ambiguous because I as I was saying the other sentences the point was uh so clear. Um if I have information and you have come to me especially one-on-one or privately or intimately in that intimate way and have asked something doesn’t matter what but I’ve asked something um I have a responsibility to respond to you I have a responsibility to try at my very best to measure your receptivity uh your ability to appate I mean the dictionary definition those made made clear made understood properly

00:32:23 – 00:33:42
to appreciate um and comprehend and be able to handle the answer to the information. So to the best of my abilities have those measurements of uh you are in fact ready uh I have the knowledge that I have the answer to the question you’re asking and that I have um a responsibility to answer you. I think people have a responsibility with information to share any form of information with anybody when it’s suitable. So in that capacity I then have to decide as this is ongoing as how and what I can portray show

00:33:03 – 00:34:09
tell and there’s a lot of various responsibilities in there. We’re talking about responsibility is a singular thing and there are many different types of responsibilities as this is ongoing. Um, one of the the the teachers that I think stand out in my mind in the past that I’ve admired most are when when they reach a point in their teaching where they don’t have the answer and they are not egotistical so much as to pretend they do, you know, to reach that point of saying, well, I don’t know the answer

00:33:36 – 00:34:44
to your question, but let’s research it out or let me find out and I’ll get back to you or whatever instead of just sort of of laughing their way through or pretending that they’re in authority on they really don’t know that the problems arise through those most subtle degrees of ego. I I’m afraid that a majority of the people um that I know the vast majority of the people have very subtle degrees of ego which I am guilty of. I mean I have seen many of my own. uh some of those things were addressed in the last

00:34:10 – 00:35:25
48 hours with my son Todd and the rest of my family and I thought wow that is me so this is something that everybody has and it’s a sad state of affairs when the individual decides well I should pacify my student when the truth is they don’t know the answer to the question um to not to be ignorant is nothing there’s Nothing wrong with ignorance at all. I mean, it’s not even my opinion. It’s a it’s a spiritual fact that in the human condition especially, you can’t know everything all the time. I mean,

00:34:48 – 00:35:53
again, that would be pure love. That would be pure light. You would spontaneously combust. But um in fact, I’m bear with me if I brag. I’m proud of myself for answering very bluntly a lot of times, you know, I am probably one of the most ignorant people on that subject. astrology for one other words the mechanics of astrology. Uh I’m very ignorant on that subject and yet I enjoy and listen to people asking questions of that and of course right away I try to respond and answer correctly. So I can

00:35:20 – 00:36:46
participate in it but I first qualify myself as saying I’m very ignorant of that subject and then again try see you I qualified or you should qualify where you’re coming from and how intensively adept are you in this particular subject or in how are you answering this? Are you answering this from you the intellectual, philosophical, spiritually educated you? Or are you speaking intuitively slashspiritually? In other words, do I consider myself a spiritual being? Yes. Do I answer things spontaneously spiritually? Yes, I do. I

00:36:03 – 00:37:12
mean, I I I’ve done that a lot and I’m anticipating doing that more. Yeah. Are you aware Tom when you’re talking as sometimes you’re human Tom Sawyer or when you’re sort of clicked into right you might have to ask that question again because let me answer it this way. The minute you said the second word of that statement because I I don’t even know it’s a question right now or statement. I knew exactly what you were asking and I kind of started to smile because see the smile is my way of

00:36:38 – 00:37:41
covering up my impatience if you haven’t noticed that. And I want to just interrupt you and tell you what’s the sense of having me listen to the whole long drawn out question when I can just make you as happy as I can be by just saying sometimes and then answer it more properly. Um, and I’ve condition I’m not good at it yet. I’ve conditioned myself to wait, to be patient, and already know the answer to the question even though we haven’t asked it. Well, now is that me being psychic or intuitive? No.

00:37:09 – 00:38:19
Because we’re in a flowing conversation, and everybody does that to a degree or another. And it’s difficult for me to be quiet enough and wait and then then one, two, three. sometimes answer that then go on with the the long version of the the answer. Even for me to not just go right off on a tangent, give the 10-minute answer. I’ve conditioned myself and learned to say, “Well, let me answer you first, yes or no, or let me say, well, it’s a yes or no answer, and let me give you both sides,

00:37:44 – 00:39:09
then I’ll tell you the long version of the paradox.” All right. Now, now repeat the question if you can. Okay. Are you aware of the time when you’re speaking as Tom Sawyer the human being and when you’re right see I want and sometimes in that um there are I can’t even give percentages but let me guess at percentages. Oh, 30% of the time where I’m talking in a subject and then actual spiritual intuitive information flashes into me or comes into me and I just the words flow

00:38:25 – 00:39:36
perfectly and uh some people claim that they can hear that in my voice. In other words, they hear either I slow down and very slowly and say words like efficacy. Yeah. and things like that. Or I’ll speed up and just rattle off this information and then I might even say, “Wow, that was interesting.” As if you were hearing it for the first time, right? And and there’s truth to that. In other words, that is uh spiritual intuition or spiritual knowledge that is not in my intellect. It’s not really in my brain

00:39:02 – 00:40:09
per se. It’s not in my intellect. I haven’t learned it out of books. maybe come for the very first time into my realization, my conscious level, and that that comes out that way. I’m guessing at a number of, let’s say, for the lack of a better number, 30% of the time of times that situations like that have happen. Other times, and one example that I’m thinking of right away was in Albany at an official lecture was to be a 1-hour lecture, was a three and a half hour lecture. beautiful situation where I became

00:39:34 – 00:40:55
intuitively aware of a suicide scenario in the audience. I was never during that time aware of the third rather identical suicide scenario in the audience. I started with a singular realization with my physical eyes. I saw the individual. Okay. And became aware of his uh situation. So seeing that and with the way the conversation was flowing there was a question regarding that and as I was scanning the audience with my physical eyes I saw this individual now uh I should say of course I continue to scan I didn’t stop and

00:40:15 – 00:41:27
stare and as I answered the question I did not look and talk directly to that individual I mean that’s politeness if nothing else but then with his realization I was talking to that man. So I it was more comfortable for me. I was answering his situation as that developed within a minute less than a minute in time and I talked for probably 20 25 minutes answering that situation. Within a minute of that time I became intuitively aware that there was another another man by the way. It doesn’t matter male or

00:40:51 – 00:42:05
female but another person in the audience with a rather identical situation. After that lecture was over and we sort of convened to the parking lot where we talked for another half hour, um, a third couple came directly over to me and with accolades and I was, “Thank you so much.” And and we knew that you were talking only to us. Well, right away I said, “Well, I appreciate what you’re telling me, but I was not talking only to you.” Yeah. And then I did explain that as a matter of fact I will share

00:41:28 – 00:42:42
with just this smaller group that there were two other individuals who I was addressing intimately and personally. Although I know that when I do this, not only will the whole audience appreciate and understand what I’m talking about, but those individuals who are in the audience that that becomes so absolutely intimate and personal againspiritual that they will receive that that way. So that example says that I was initially intuitively aware of one individual within a sentence or two became aware

00:42:05 – 00:43:37
that there was another in the audience of about 350 and then not at all during that talk was I accomplishing and I say I what was I accomplishing or were we accomplishing the uh effect the effectiveness of that personalized intimate spiritual talk for another intensive individual as well as the entire 350 audience at large. While we’re on that subject, I know we haven’t covered this before, but it’s so helpful for me. You have personally helped me in two situations where Be careful where he I know

00:42:50 – 00:44:13
where I was helping someone who was trying to stop someone from committing suicide and I quoted directly what you suggested that I say to a person that’s contemplating suicide. I think it would be really good on tape because their the person that was helping their uh instinct was to not stress the person out anymore by saying anything negative. What they wanted to say, I’m with you unconditionally. I love you unconditionally. Whatever you decide to do, I’ll still love you. And I know what you told me to say with a much

00:43:32 – 00:44:48
harder line than that. Never. Can you tell me or tell our audience if you’re confronted with someone who’s seriously contemplating suicide, what would you suggest basically? Okay. Well, all right. And for right now, I’m a little bit caught off guard. Uh I know as I’m thinking I’m still stuck on that research organization. Situations was a teenager that had already tried one and the other one was a call I had gotten that West have already tried suicide inter I’ll never understand uh the pain

00:44:14 – 00:45:38
will be much greater if you take this step than anything that we could deal with if you stay here in the body and you worked on whatever it is that you just don’t give them any sense that the step of suicide is acceptable is an option will alleviate any of their real problems. Right. Right. The understanding of that is of course with honesty that you cannot understand fully anybody else’s situation, right? And and then to to tell them that that you cannot understand. So often that that word is just thrown out. Oh, I

00:44:57 – 00:46:13
understand. And a person who is really hurting or is in a state of disease um is saying, “Do you understand?” And they want the truth. Yeah. They want you to say, “Well, I can understand a part of what you’re going through.” And then uh the best scenario is for a person to have the ability to associate a portion of their uh disease or disease with something in their personal life. You can say, “Well, it’s funny you should ask me that because I was so distraught one time I thought of attempting suicide

00:45:33 – 00:46:59
and I found that it worked out for me.” And again, a direct association, but in your case, this wasn’t so. And it’s still most important for you to say uh sentences number one that will not indicate that it is ever ever ever okay. to do a suicide, to commit suicide, to accomplish a suicide. That number two, it will absolutely positively not solve anything. It will not make the family better off. It will not alleviate your the person who is attempting suicide or considering it. It will not make that

00:46:17 – 00:47:34
person better off or it will not alleviate them the pain and suffering that they’re obviously going through. If it be psychological or physical or whatever, the excuses or the the um the desire to escape from that which they’re desiring to escape from, they will not escape from that. That is not an answer. They’re the two most important things along with there are that there is a way out of this that if you allow yourself some time with effort that it is answerable that that things will get

00:46:56 – 00:48:08
better. When you say will, don’t say can’t. I mean, be more specific. They will get better. And that you will love this person. That you do love them at the moment. They might be being obnoxious. You might be extremely uncomfortable. You might be wishing you were anywhere else but in that confrontation with what you are dealing with. Um, confronted by a person who is contemplating or attempting suicide. But you tell them that you care. You can tell them that this is upsetting to me to hear about this, but

00:47:32 – 00:48:42
I want to tell you that I care and I want you to be better off because I want you to be better off. Minimize the logical deductive reasoning because that started to sound like logical deductive reasoning. And usually, oh, can I say usually? Yes. usually that a person in a suicide state or contemplating suicide has had enough of logical deductive reasoning because for most people that use logical deductive reasoning, they’ve already got to their own personal therefore, right? And therefore, their

00:48:06 – 00:49:25
only answer is to stop, to die, to stop this, to cease this um state of disease or disease. and that they can’t tolerate this anymore. They have to do anything to get away from this and this is what is on their mind and they have already come to the realization that therefore therefore therefore therefore there are no other options. So you might wish to give a very simplistic I’m emphasizing simplistic option be careful as to what you predict or say should you tell them that in two weeks they will be better

00:48:47 – 00:50:01
you can say that tomorrow will be better but don’t say cured and again you know don’t lie right but but give them some hope tell them that you care and that you love them. And if you say the word to a complete stranger, say this because some people are still hung up in telling a complete stranger and and I mean look right say, “I love you.” Yeah. And mean it. See, be careful about roleplay because again, honesty is important. Yeah. Or that you’re not sure. In other words, are you really comfortable in

00:49:23 – 00:50:29
using that sentence, I love you? I mean, if this jerk I’m I’m I’m not calling anybody who’s contemplating suicide a jerk, but in your mind’s eye right then at that moment, you have this guy who is ugly, who is overweight or or too skinny or anything like that, and you’re not enjoying his physical appearance. Yeah. How much can you say at a moment’s notice, I love you? You might be actually hung up on the disgusting appearance of this individual or the disgusting odor of this

00:49:56 – 00:51:07
individual or this disgusting uh religion or philosophical view. These are all biases and prejudices of ours. But again, I’m using that as an example because say things either simplistically or ambiguously so you don’t have to corner yourself into a lie. It makes me think of the Native American belie that if you save a life then you’re responsible for it for the rest of your life. Does it go through your mind that if you’re you know if this person says okay I won’t commit suicide

00:50:31 – 00:51:43
what next that it’s your responsibility to help them with that next step and that that’s something that that anybody who hears that sentence right now and it rings a little bell you should really delve into that the American culture right the American Indian culture and that I like that that’s not bad that’s good Um, and possibly in a a little more intimate discussion than a videotape, uh, I could even address to a small group of people as opposed to a large group of people some of the spiritual

00:51:07 – 00:52:41
implications that I know about regarding future [Music] responsibilities of that scenario where if you have saved a person’s life Um um in other words, it was assured that this person would have died, passed on, we’ll say if it be from a suicide or from an accident. And if you uh share, love, heal, manipulate, or do and prevent, I’ll use that word, prevent or save. You can look at it two different ways. Prevent or save a person from passing on There are spiritual implications that go

00:51:55 – 00:53:08
into the future. I don’t want to really get into this right now. It’s a very uh very what intellectual or intensive subject because uh I would have to be very careful as to the sentences I use and what I say but I can give examples which I will not one example that we won’t get into that I know you experience but we’ll save that for another. Yeah. I mean there are several that will give if I give just the examples that I have mechanically been involved in know or physically reality

00:52:31 – 00:53:48
in other words did I hold a man’s head together with my hand was his skull was it in three pieces on the street and did I physically put him back together and support the physical skull to the hospital through the emergency through the upstairs operation and I mean just I get covered with blood. All that mechanical stuff. Did I do that? Yes, I did. Did it work? It wasn’t supposed to. In spite of my efforts and God bless all the situation, it worked. Are there any spiritual connectednesses or future

00:53:10 – 00:54:17
scenarios or implications of my relationship, my spiritual relationship with that particular person? And the answer is yes, there is. Don’t worry about that. I mean, don’t worry about that. That’s not that’s not as big a deal as many people will attach themselves to or think of. Uh, in other words, god forbid anybody should hesitate saving a person’s life because they would think in terms of, wait a minute, I don’t want to take any responsibility for their future or for my future in relationship with this

00:53:44 – 00:55:17
individual. I mean, that would be terrible. So, but there there are implications there there are there is a degree of reality to that. Um, but no one comes into well I no one comes into their incarnation with a pre-planned suicide. Oh, hold on. I I wasn’t following you. I’m glad you said that. I thought you were going to say nobody comes into an incarnation with um for the purpose of not the sole purpose the only purpose uh of saving another person’s life that I can see that would all right but uh you mean come

00:54:30 – 00:55:56
into this incarnation for the purpose of attempting or accomplishing a suicide is their karma. Um I can say publicly no that that is not fair that is not accurate because uh it’s dealing with the fundamental simplistic positive negative good and evil thing. It is in the order of evil, bad, negative, sad, uh not progressive, all of those words and phrases to uh even think in terms andor accomplish a suicide in your life or any anybody’s life. It is um a good, glad, and wonderful thing to

00:55:14 – 00:56:24
overcome. I mean, God forbid that any of us should get into a a situation or whatever where we contemplate suicide to overcome that is a very great accomplishment. I mean, God bless anybody who has been psychologically stressed, physically uh in a state of disease or have a disease and so on and and seriously consider suicide and overcome that dilemma. That is a very great accomplishment. That’s better than becoming financially rich because to become spiritually rich in something like that has much greater

00:55:49 – 00:57:23
long-term value. Much greater. Needless to say, something brief. Yeah. Just uh sign language almost out of tape. Yeah. Well, we just need to take a break. We can take Well, after that wonderful cup of tea and and great four sandwiches, Angel cake from your angel Elaine, we’re back again. And our next subject is about um loving relationships. Yes. Okay. in the work that we do where we’re all about talking about and trying to promote loving relationships between people. I think a lot of us run

00:56:46 – 00:58:20
into having deep loving relationships with many people and I think maybe you could address keeping a balance in your life if you have a family and when you have more loving relationship. You know, one of the u most difficult situations is to have a long-term relationship. It could be spousal or otherwise. And uh for instance, in my case, having had a near-death experience for other people, a spontaneous spiritual awakening or just um a a GSA, a gradual spiritual awakening. Uh people A few people, in fact, I dare say

00:57:34 – 00:58:59
several people who went to Sedona with us um have had or are having a gradual spiritual awakening. And by that I mean they were this person from high school and or college and for the last 10 or 15 years uh they have done this and that the other thing and they have a relationship or relationships which is ongoing. So they all fall in the same category that uh those of us spouses, long-term relationships and so on. Uh have a situation where the Hello Tad, welcome. We have new members in our audience. My son Tad who was come all

00:58:15 – 00:59:35
the way from Germany and my father’s son Tim. Uh we’re talking about relationships. Lost my train of thought. Talking about the people, right? And regardless of the really longevity of the relationship or even the intimacy or in other words the degree of the relationship, how good, how bad, that type of thing, uh we have relationships and as a person goes into or on or has suddenly a spiritual way of thinking or a spiritual change of any kind, you and I change from inside and we suddenly know things. Now we know our

00:58:56 – 01:00:09
attitude has changed. We know there is this thing called spirituality and that there is a spiritual this or that or the other thing. So rather instantly with that realization even if it’s over a period of time for a gradual uh spiritual awakening there is a realization that there are new needs likes dislikes and you know a growth process if it be suddenly or otherwise. In other words, we’re not the same. Now, the problem with that that it’s usually in form of a problem is that either the spouse, the

00:59:33 – 01:00:49
friend or the relationship they have been ongoing normality, familiarity and that which is usual and shall I say the word normal is the status quo. And then all of a sudden this person starts talking either about God or saying, “I don’t wish to argue with you anymore or changing in some ways.” Well, again, as changes, um, abrupt changes are usually chaotic either in themselves or the result. This is kind of what I’m hinting toward right now. Like you come home and you’re a different person.

01:00:12 – 01:01:26
Yeah. And I don’t mean to take sides, but the spouse is the same person as they were three days ago or three months ago, and you aren’t. Now, generally, what we’re talking about is a greater or better realization. In other words, your reality has become uh activated with knowledge. Even if it just be an attitudinal change, that’s a form of knowledge of spirituality. Now, the the relationship that you have with other people. There is of course the scenario where they are not receptive at all to anything new.

01:00:49 – 01:02:13
They are not receptive to some of the spiritual borderline stuff, channeling, reincarnation, God. I mean, any and all of those things and they very well not receptive at all. And yet you’re standing there knowing the reality of any and all these subjects. Uh that is usually traumatic. That is dramatic to say the least in in and often traumatic for spouses and friends and and relationships even if it be a business partner. Often times it’s not nice and it’s chaotic. um uh given the statistic that I’ve

01:01:31 – 01:02:44
given in other talks is that intensive near-death experiencers who have been married for a period of time uh prior to the near-death experience and that are married during that time they will become separated andor divorced within 3 years and it’s like 90ome percent of spouses and I mean that sounds very tragic and it’s certainly not absolutely delightful but there are cause and relationships that can be considered and thought out sociologically, psychologically and spiritually. One of the things that I,

01:02:08 – 01:03:30
you know, I usually say in a talk like this is just be aware of that. Now, for you people and myself who have had some type of a spiritual awakening and have been spiritually oriented in the last couple of years, be aware that casual friends, relatives, and so on are not aware of what’s going on in your mind or in your soul or in your heart. And that if you are the the rough, tough, rather macho Tom Sawyer who is steadfast and trustworthy and a very sexual being to my wife Elaine, but not only had I

01:02:49 – 01:04:03
better never catch you kissing anybody else, I never will. And don’t you ever expect that of me. And then all of a sudden Tom is not only on national television but in an audience of uh three 300 people to a thousand people and hugging fervently all of those people. And I mean hugging people that prior through bias and prejudice and so on I would never shake hands with. In other words, I would shun. I would say uh it’s really nice meeting you. That’s okay. We’ll shake hands later. or just

01:03:26 – 01:04:38
no thank you, goodbye. And now I feel saddened to have to walk away from anybody, anybody, good or bad, tall or short, or anything like that, without a fervent hug. And I mean, does that make me better than anybody else? Well, it does in a way. In other words, it’s much better to be more open and and unconditional and be able to take delight in a good hug. But then we have situations where and it’s very typical of near-death experiences including myself where suddenly I am in love with everybody else. And I don’t mean to say

01:04:03 – 01:05:27
every well I do mean to say everybody else meaning everybody. Now that does not at all mean that my love my intimacy my lust my intellectual partnership with my wife Elaine is decreased at all. There is no decrease. In fact, it was increased. Um, my appreciation for her increased instantaneously. Now, how does that come out the next day? Well, the next day, in fact, I recall saying more fervently, I really do love you because I was able to say that was the first additional realization. So, it was a little better

01:04:45 – 01:05:58
that way. Well, be careful of the idea that you’re getting that gee, Tom got better the next day because what did Elaine experience? Well, I said that so methodically or when I did say that it was either only lustful I really love you, let’s go to bed or uh I love you, can I have more money? It was it was very conditional and she can’t really see or know that I’m being more unconditional. And I’m actually using the word love. I mean the real word of love. You had said at one time that that many near or all

01:05:22 – 01:06:46
near death come back experiencing more of a detached love but like you say you love everybody equally and nobody really intend well there have been several that I know personally a near-death experiences who came back and had a difficult time showing telling and participating in the love relationship with their spouse and I I mean all the different ways including sexually because it was so different that you know I love you I don’t have to show you with hugs and kisses and uh as a sexual expression uh intimately and in

01:06:03 – 01:07:06
that way. Um I can just love you from the other side of the room. And that might sound funny. It might sound wonderful to some people. Might sound terrible to other people. Um, if you would have said that to me three or four years prior to my near-death experience, I would have said, “Wait a minute.” Uh, the only thing that is free and clear is sex and the only true expression of a spousal love is having sex and being able to love each other in that way. It’s um it it doesn’t cost money. It’s

01:06:35 – 01:07:46
free. It’s available. It’s without condition, meaning you don’t need permission or all of those attitudes and so on. That was typical and usual for me then. Now things are very different. Don’t misunderstand me. Both Elaine and I are still very sexual. I haven’t become a priest that says celibacy is a wonderful thing. God forbid. Um uh and yet at the same time I’m joking about that because I can recognize and this is a tough thing for me to claim since I am sexual um that I can

01:07:10 – 01:08:25
appreciate celibacy. I don’t I can’t know unless I’ve done become celibate and I’m not. So it’s one of those things where come on knock it off. If you’ve never been that don’t claim it but uh know I can at least appreciate compared total denial of possibility prior. Um, some of the other relationships that have blossomed around you with the thousands of people that you get to and handling the balance in your life of this is my wife, this is my family. Yeah. And then having other women that

01:07:48 – 01:08:57
feel close to you or you feel close to them. I mean, it’s almost impossible not to have that when you’re working in a situation with with that a spouse of love all the time, love one another and hug one another and go to these things like that don’t know where everybody hugging each other and people lose balance and focus. Elaine once said, in fact publicly once said, um, yeah, I get a kick at all these near-death experiences who profess to come back with this new knowledge of love and why don’t they start in their

01:08:23 – 01:09:36
own home? Why don’t they start with their spouse? Well, a reason for that is why some cannot or some simply don’t is a lack of receptivity. And I know that’s, you know, Ela might not even want to hear that right now, but a lack of receptivity or realization that this can be enhanced upon or that this can be real. and they find it easier to meet a new person, a stranger, and just start off loving them unconditionally. And I don’t necessarily mean sexually, but it can also include

01:08:59 – 01:10:10
sexual implications at least for this moment in the conversation, sexual implications and so on. And that uh if I have changed so much, is it not easier to go and move to a different city and start all over again? Do I have to wait for the equivalent 10 or 15 years in time for my mother-in-law or my cousin to see me in this different light? That’s I like that phrase. Or in this as this different personality or as this new and improved version. Draw to yourself those who are in comfortable with you. Uh, did Tom hug you yesterday?

01:09:35 – 01:10:40
Well, yes. When he said goodbye, he did hug me. Was there any difference? Well, you know, you don’t know if Tom’s kidding or not. See, that will be the bias of prejudice attitude that I have hugged my mother-in-law, for example, periodically since we met. It was on occasion. I get stuck doing it. Okay. Well, I mean, that that’s what it was like prior. Now, I really fervently enjoy doing that. I didn’t really from my side I didn’t really enjoy doing that. It wasn’t really my desire. I did

01:10:07 – 01:11:17
it because it was socially expected of me. Okay. In that way socially I was forced to do it. Now I do it automatically as an expression of love. I mean do you see the major difference in that? Can she see or feel the difference? Well, she can but she may not. Or maybe I said that reverse. She may, but she might not be able to is what I’m trying to say. She might not be able to feel or see the difference because she is so set in her bias image of I’ve been this for 15 years. She might not be receptive to any degree of

01:10:42 – 01:11:47
change. So, it would require typically it would require years or months or years of her suddenly realizing, gee, you know, when I first met you, the first couple times we hugged when you said goodbye or or this or that, um, I felt kind of cold or like, you know, you’re just my my daughter’s boyfriend and and now, gee, Tom, you know, you’re really a nice person. I’m keeping it of a positive nature. And there may or may not be that is what I’m saying. and that overexpectations on the part of

01:11:14 – 01:12:29
near-death experiencers and people who like most of the people viewing this this uh vide tape are trying and striving and wishing for and at least understanding that love is a better way than manipulation or any other thing and that we’re trying to focus on a more unconditional love. An additional problem is that the degree of intimacy. Now, intimacy I use in many different ways because I have the ability to be extremely intimate with anybody psychologically enough said. In other words, one-on-one. Uh the closest

01:11:51 – 01:13:00
that I come to a reading of a person, uh the closest I come to being a person’s uh not just casual friend, but shall I dare say something of a psychologist in nature and so on. And you can’t do that accurately or fervently as I wish to say uh but accurately unless you’re truly intimate with that person. And that doesn’t mean being a superior subordinate role. It doesn’t mean being psychologist and this person is asking me for some counseling. It doesn’t mean uh any conditional thing. It means that

01:12:26 – 01:13:51
you are intimate enough to be equal with that person and and delve into their persona or personality. Um and I mean I have the ability to do that comfortably. I’m not saying that other people are not as comfortable as I am, but I have seen in many many circumstances as we all change toward this more unconditional love and positive attitude and striving for it, no matter how successful we are at it, there are situations where uh your mood, your degree of intimacy, your needs can be met in different and

01:13:09 – 01:14:28
various ways. they can be met equal to your spouse. Now, I’m kind of steering away from and eliminating the lustful sexual part of this because I want to keep it, you know, uniform and and okay and and socially acceptable for the moment as we develop in this conversation and everything is okay. But then if you have somebody who is so normal and usual and knows who you are, your likes and dislikes, in other words, a spousal relationship, the degree of familiarity, and it’s well, I thought I told you this

01:13:48 – 01:14:59
instead of did you recall that I told you this. See, you will treat a stranger nicer than you will treat your spouse. Usually in normal spousal conversations, I am 100% as guilty of doing this to my wife Elaine as she is of doing it to me and everybody else. In other words, how do you talk quickly to your spouse? Oh, did you get the stuff? Now, there’s nothing really wrong with that unless the mood is not that good and then that’s one more irritating demand. Or if it were a stranger, you would have taken

01:14:23 – 01:15:23
the time to say, right? You might have even said the same words the same way. Oh, did you get the stuff? But the reaction will be, “Oh, yes, I did. Is there something else you would like?” I mean, can you hear two spouses saying that after 15, 20 years of marriage? Or it doesn’t matter the time, even if it be 6 months, saying, “Uh, uh, oh, yes. Is there something else you would like?” The more typical reaction is the the abbreviated, “Yeah, that’s all. That’s enough said.”

01:14:54 – 01:16:10
Well, what do you mean? You know what I’m talking about. See those things that can gradually become minor irritants. And you don’t get that from new acquaintances. Now, here you are all full of love and you have new acquaintances who are new and refreshing and unconditional. And yet, do I love Elaine anymore? Yes, I do more. Do I love her any less? No, not less at all. But it can be more satisfying to just have a sitdown conversation with a casual stranger than it is to have to go home and talk to Elaine about the phone bill.

01:15:31 – 01:17:06
Right. Right. I mean, all right. This sets the scene for the caution that we are not only vulnerable and can become victims of new found loves which unconditionally and spiritually and intimately can very very easily become romantically andor sexually. and in that capacity intimate or intimately. All right? So, I mean, you see the difference and I purposely reserve the the romantic and sexual because some people have a difficult time differentiating the two and there is a big difference. Um, I have had

01:16:19 – 01:17:39
romantic inclinations from new found people in the last 10 years. I have had individuals who have fallen in love with me to one degree or the other romantically. Uh thank God, and I’m just saying this for myself and my circus. Thank God I was able to recognize that exactly as it was. And I will claim I don’t really know if Elaine will agree with me. I will claim that I have never found myself out of control. meaning like an oh my god situation like oh my god I didn’t realize it was this was as

01:16:59 – 01:18:16
that developed in a couple of occasions a few occasions I was able to see that as it developed on one occasion in particular I came home and shared with Elaine that this person I love this person unconditionally this person is working with me currently and it is a good relationship please don’t be afraid of if you notice a romantic inclination that I am aware of this already and that I won’t become a victim of that. I mean see there’s the problem because how can I ever tell that to Elaine? Elaine loves

01:17:37 – 01:18:52
me but she has been vulnerable. I have been vulnerable. Everybody has become vulnerable usually. I mean I can’t think of any exception. and that you know how something like that can suddenly become a realization it can creep up on you sneak up on you. So even though I was telling Elaine ahead of time that I was aware of this and that not to worry well anybody who is a spouse or the intimate relationship um has a tendency to worry and uh cannot fully understand well they can’t know what takes place. Now uh again I want to

01:18:15 – 01:19:43
also include other scenarios that you’re not suddenly a victim of a romantic inclination or uh lustful sex or that kind of intimacy or even a truly loving relationship. You can’t have multiple truly deep loving relationships. If among my new needs have been an unconditional type of intimacy intellectually, psychologically slashspiritually, not spiritually uh spiritually into any of those things or just the fundamental psychological needs of uh my wife has a tendency to hug me once every other day

01:19:01 – 01:20:14
and I actually have a desire and a need to be hugged 10 times a day. I’m exaggerating on purpose. 10 times a day. If I find that I can receive that. Okay. In other words, this is even socially acceptable. Okay. By being at John’s house or Alice’s house, but see, I’m also including fact when you one of the last comments you made and you referred to me saying another woman. I’m talking about something that goes beyond all the socially acceptable or usual or normal and all that sort of stuff because

01:19:37 – 01:20:47
this is a situation where I have the ability to love a person for a person and if they’re they’re green or blue, if they’re you know male or female or in between or both I mean well you know and see we smile right away but I have met somebody who is both right I have hugged uh homosexuals uh self-proclaimed homosexuals, self-proclaimed lesbians and everything else. And I could not have done that prior to my near-death experience. I would not have done that. Um I mean, I bordered on the person who would

01:20:12 – 01:21:36
uh actually physically abuse somebody only because of their difference either socially or sexually. And uh so in other words, I’ve changed that way. If I can receive this delightful need, even if only be the new psychological needs that I either know about or don’t know about, knows it can be a conscious need or a subconscious need of 10 hugs a day compared to one hug every other day. I might very well find myself purposely loving a little more of this type of a relationship outside my household, meaning away from in this

01:20:53 – 01:22:10
case accept your what you’re normally given through the marriage or through the relationship and then meet your your needs your new needs elsewhere without feeling that it’s a threat to the relationship. I don’t I’m not sure if this is the best example, but I’m stating here also that it is okay for me to uh supply those needs. In other words, take delight and supply those needs of hugs from many people and not just rely on my needs being supplied by my wife Elaine. See, if I hug a thousand

01:21:32 – 01:22:45
people, I might only have need for three. Would I receive that? because I need the equivalent of three hugs and I get 300 hugs in one day. Um, I might still have accomplished the need for the three hugs. And let’s say Lane didn’t hug me at all that day or she supplied one of those hugs. I don’t know if this is the best example, but you know, you can work this into other needs. The problem with that is the difference between needs and what you can socially acceptably take delight in. Right? Now,

01:22:09 – 01:23:26
if I supply those needs through other people, strangers if you will, there’s nothing wrong with that spiritually speaking. And depending on your social background and cultural conditioning, it may or may not be acceptably socially and culturally. Now if you’re a very strict this or that or the other thing you have a ethnic background or religious background that enters into it and that is your measurements may not be mine but in a spousal relationship there is a basic understanding of that which is socially

01:22:47 – 01:24:04
and sexually acceptable. I mean as an example for instance I disagree with lipkissing with the general public. I don’t do that and and I will actually stop and prevent that from happening in a public forum. Has nothing to do with social really. It has nothing to do with spiritual so much. It has to do with my understanding and perception of hygiene. In other words, that is a sexual thing even if it not be intended. See, it can be perpetrated and mechanically done as a spiritual gift. I mean uh some

01:23:26 – 01:24:26
Italians are famous for that. Some another’s ethnic and cultural backgrounds are famous for that that you should kiss on either cheek. That’s acceptable. But again, lips on lips, you have saliva exchange and so on that can be sexual and and hygienically incorrect. So that is one of those borderline situations with me, Tom Sawyer. Hugs. I don’t care if you’re clean, neat, dirty, or large or small or whatever. A hug is a hug. If you can’t reach around, well, you hugged halfway.

01:23:56 – 01:25:11
If you can reach around twice and grab your elbows, that’s fine, too. Um, and that’s acceptable. And then that can just be dealt with psychologically and spiritually and is usually perfectly okay. So, we each have our borderline situations where what is acceptable and what isn’t. As we develop spiritually, those border lines don’t become totally disintegrated, but they waver. And I’m not saying that you’re simply giving into more lustful or more greedy or more needs or more desires. No, I’m

01:24:33 – 01:25:55
saying that they dissolve by the company you’re in. In other words, can I hug Dr. Kenneth Ring as fervently as I can hug a um a child a woman child abuser? If I know she’s a child abuser, psychologically I might have a slight little frigid type hangup. I mean I will do it but there will be that little spiritual sensation and you know and it was that I am giving to her and if she is receptive enough she will be able to pick up that maybe not quite the full vi wonderful vibrations and she might be

01:25:15 – 01:26:27
able to pick up that little negative vibration that I’m thinking of one of her inadequacies by my judgment my judgment that she is a child abuser and I don’t like that and I want that to stop or change. So as I hug her, there will be a difference in that hug. Not so much in the ferveny generally, but there’ll be that little aspect. You can’t deny some of your biases and prejudices and judgment judgments. So that’s all in a hug because you’re in each other’s space. You are doing that vibrational thing. I

01:25:51 – 01:26:51
have a tendency to measure with the palms of my hands. In other words, when I’m hugging, I have a tendency to open my fingers, for instance, as opposed to that. And then um in different ways, I mean, the subtle differences um I have a tendency to measure through my hands, other can I see through my hands? I don’t want to get too kooky about how we experience that. Some people uh can just have their heart chakra in the center of them having nothing to do with the surface or the sweater or whatever it is while they’re

01:26:21 – 01:27:22
hugging somebody. They’re closer. Not really that. If they’re within each other’s space, they can even be five or six feet away and there’s not much difference between that and very close. Some people require the physical touch, skin on skin, if you will. For instance, if they hug and it’s winter time, they’re fully clothed. Some people will not be satisfied with that spiritually speaking. And as they separate, they will purposely grab the person’s hand. I’ve done that. In other words, I wasn’t

01:26:51 – 01:27:46
satisfied with just the hug and I shall I dare say I needed to have my hand or my fingers on their hand or elbow or or you know if it’s a little girl I might touch the top of their head or something like that. All those different things that that we may or may not be aware of but that are measurements. I went way off on a tangent regarding the mechanics of this but um did you want to say something? Well, I was going to say going back to you saying that you probably treat a stranger better than

01:27:18 – 01:28:22
you treat your spouse. Um, I think a lot of us go through that in taking each other for granted. All of us do. Yeah. All of us who have been married for more than 6 months or are back from the honeymoon. I mean, if it be a vacation type honeymoon or whatever or the proverbial honeymoon, Elaine, in my case, it lasted three years. Our honeymoon lasts a little over three years. So, anytime after the honeymoon Uh, every spouse takes for granted. Is that how do you say it? Granted. Yeah. All right. It’s not granted. They say

01:27:51 – 01:28:57
granted. Uh, in other words, that’s another way of putting it. Follow it. You know, degree of familiarity. Uh, it can it may or may not be outright verbal abuse. If for instance, I say to Elaine, “Yeah, I love you.” She might experience that as actual verbal abuse. How dare you say the sentence, “I love you,” and not mean it. That’s the same as calling me a name. Um, and then the usual things like the answer, yeah, instead of okay honey or sweetheart or darling or Elaine

01:28:23 – 01:29:43
or okay Elaine, see you can emphatically say okay Elaine and not have it as nasty as okay sweetheart. Yeah, I mean very subtle little things that over a long period of time become verbal abuse with a stranger or a newfound friend. First, you haven’t had the time to get so ordinary and familiar that you can be emphatic and they will instantly forgive you. As opposed to a spouse, know that the long-term relationship where you’re searching for an excuse to say, “There you go again.” or the sword fighting,

01:29:03 – 01:30:11
the need for sword fighting as I call. Um, of course, be cautious of the newfound relationship that you may be supplementing that which you really should be correcting in your spousal relationship along with just the fact that let’s be honest and I mean I’m claiming this. Let’s be honest, there are many fish in the sea. You have the ability to fall in love with more than one person. I didn’t think that prior to my near-death experience. I honestly and truthfully did not think that. I thought

01:29:40 – 01:30:49
the night in shining armor or the one the one princess, right? I thought that there was one person for each person. uh this doesn’t really uh affect this whole deal about soulmates but if you want to include that it would be that you have a soulmate and even regarding that if you want to use that phrase and I’m not that familiar with it but a soulmate even a soulmate there’s more than one depending on your long-term interpretation of a soulmate in others that there are uh more intimate and loving

01:30:14 – 01:31:27
relationships with uh everybody if you know it or not or If you’ve ever had an experience toward that or not, that doesn’t matter. I’m claiming that there are more loves for each person than a singular. There may very well be a singular only, but there’s usually uh the capacity for any one of us to be as much in love as we’ve ever been with an additional or another individual in in a single lifetime. So the maturity in that situation is to not automatically throw out the old soulmate or the new soul,

01:30:51 – 01:32:08
but to um look for the value in what you already have rather than to just, you know, it’s this whole thing can be very very trying and very very difficult. And as I’ve said, most near-death experiencers, intensive near-death experiencers who have a profound spiritual awakening become separated and divorced. Uh, so I mean, you know, the statistics speak for itself as far as this is not just a caution that I’m trying to share with you. The reality, this is a very trying and and uh traumatic usually and dramatic uh

01:31:29 – 01:32:42
reality. And the thing the what happens is that all the children get involved in all of the switching around or whatever. I we have a family in our hometown where the ex-husband and wife bought a duplex remarage and they’ve got new children and shared children. I mean, if you can do that, that’s beautiful because they haven’t lost the parents. But in most cases, there’s so much pain involved. Um, one quick statement which uh, which I I mean I just want to quick yell this out is that in any separation of any

01:32:06 – 01:33:19
form of any kind, I don’t care if it’s that you’re in separate bedrooms within the household, two spouses, or if you have separated voluntarily or separated legally or divorced, any form of separation or well, I still love your father and I’m living with him, but I want you to know that I’m in love with somebody else that we are going to stay together for you children and scenarios such as that. The example you gave where there are two families living side by side and that they have switch wives or know whatever

01:32:42 – 01:33:57
scenario it is. There is a tremendous amount of responsibility that I very rarely see recognized by people who do that. In other words, have accomplished that or do that. And that one of the examples or one of the things that I want to point out is if there are children involved, they are traumatized by the scenario. They are traumatized by the scenario as it developed. They are traumatized and affected forever after in their life. Regardless of how loveydovey you think it turns out or how positive or nice, they are traumatized

01:33:20 – 01:34:32
and they are affected for life. I have heard so often people say they’re young, they’ll adjust. And I want to say They’re young and they will adjust, but they will not adjust to what you’re thinking. They will adjust and they will not be normal. They will not be usual. They will be different. They will be new and not necessarily as well off. Now, I’m not saying that nobody should ever separate. I’m not saying that. There are circumstances where it is a necessity. There are circumstances where it just

01:33:56 – 01:35:05
can’t work any other way. And we’ve tried for 15 years to patch this uph all the sentences and so on. And in spite of the realization that you children are going to be hurt and traumatized and it’s going to last your entire life that we separate, we have ourselves to think of as well as you. And the balance of all this knowledge says that it’s going to be best that we separate. I’m not saying right. I’m not saying that it cannot be justified. Situations like that can be justified. But don’t deceive yourself or

01:34:31 – 01:35:48
be deceived by people that there is not that horrendously traumatic effect on not just children but casual acquaintances and friends, the families and the plural families involved. And of course, especially children, regardless of how old the children are. I don’t care if they’re still in diapers or if they’re 21 years old and have been through two divorces themselves. If their elderly parents divorce, it affects those children regardless of their age or situation. A lot of people deceive themselves and

01:35:09 – 01:36:30
they go through situations like that not knowing that there will be that uh minor examples is that the young daughter will hate the mother for leaving daddy. The young daughter will hate mommy for doing this and leaving her or bringing her with them. Um and vice versa. The gender doesn’t matter. Um there is a tendency which I know psychologically speaking that um the daughter will hate mommy because of what she did to daddy even if legally I’m emphasizing this legally daddy did the bad thing to create the

01:35:49 – 01:37:07
scenario if daddy is a physical abuser if daddy has had extrammarital affairs which is intolerable to the female spouse and the female spouse files for divorce because of uh illegitimate, all that sort of stuff. The young daughter will probably still blame mommy for the separation. Mommy instituted a bad thing. You know what comes to mind though for me is that back when we were children and our parents really tried to present their marriage as perfect and they never let you see them argue and then you go into your marriage thinking

01:36:28 – 01:37:37
it’s not correct. argue and you think your your marriage is falling apart because it wasn’t like your mom’s and dad’s. You know, there’s got to be sort of a balance there between letting your children think that relationships don’t have to be worked on to continue and yet letting them see so much of the pain that they’ll never even want to get. Yeah. Generally, we also have to consider in this statement generations because our generation meaning anywhere from 30 to 45 year olds,

01:37:04 – 01:38:17
right? Meaning the end of World War II, we were born the end of World War II from the baby boomers onwardly. There is no longer the necessity for two people to stay married. In other words, financially, uh, therefore, economically, physically, and, uh, socially. In other words, a person who was divorced in 1945 was shunned socially. Oh, that’s the divorced person. Don’t talk to her or him, right? I mean, socially, in other words, in large circles, that person will be shunned. The necessity for

01:37:40 – 01:38:42
physically speaking, in other words, I am married to you. you will take care of me, I will take care of you. There’s no longer that need. If I need surgery, I don’t need my wife Elaine to take care of me. There is the ambulance service. There is a social workers. There is the hospital. There is daycare. There is assistance. There is all kinds of things. I’m not saying it’s correct. It’s not the best scenario, but the word need. I don’t need anybody. Our society is so welldeveloped. communications,

01:38:11 – 01:39:21
transportation, and so on. You don’t need a partner to climb the mountain. You don’t need the partner to uh move to California. I mean, two people can survive in a sleeping bag at sub-zero temperature, but we don’t need sleeping bags. We have tents and Coleman lanterns and sufficient sleeping bags that you can survive alone nowadays. Right? going through a bunch of stuff to saying our parents needed each other and the probability of their surviving I’m talking death physical death as well as

01:38:46 – 01:40:03
psychological deprivation there is enough entertainment today that we can play a psychological head game saying oh I’m happy today what did you do today I watched television today did you take any time to think of your spouse who you left in Buffalo no I haven’t had the time doesn’t mean that it didn’t exist, but on a conscious level, you can be entertained enough to cope for long periods of time, conceivably getting toward more comfort of a separation and divorce and a a forgetfulness of uh responsibility

01:39:24 – 01:40:35
and know it’s a lost relationship and so on. You can fill in your time by shunning all of that. Right? What I’m stating and advocating more is of course the caution to have to go through a scenario like that. God forbid a separation and divorce is never truly fun or pleasant. It’s always losing. Somebody loses something. It’s not a good thing. It’s generally a bad thing. And the preciousness of the old relationships. A lot of times we say let’s go to Sedona, Arizona, or let’s

01:40:00 – 01:41:14
have a conference or let’s go on television. Instead of saying, let’s sit across the room from each other, set the alarm clock and not speak a word to each other. We can focus on each other. We might even smile or wink or you can eliminate that. But stay in the same room with each other for one hour a day. What an investment. It might not even be fun the first hour, first time you do it, but what an investment that like you say, it cost me $30,000 to get this last divorce. Imagine if you put

01:40:37 – 01:42:02
$30,000 into, and I’m not advocating any one of these, but counseling, a third or fourth honeymoon, a uh purchase of many, many books, articles, uh go visit friends that you don’t normally visit, talk to other people, seek religious uh counseling. Uh in other words, $30,000 worth of investment into cure. is not you know I mean that’s an extraordinary amount of money and if you invested that much time equals money in other words if you say that uh if we spend five months trying to get together

01:41:19 – 01:42:18
and solve our social problems uh that’s not a lot of time compared to a lifetime and the cost of that is minimal compared to the cost of guaranteed a divorce. So, I mean, little things like that that people, it’s so simple that they forget about that. They get all wrapped up in their own thing or the the sword fighting and yeah, well, if you do this to me, I’ll tell you one thing, you won’t get this house. I’ll burn it down. I mean, and they’re so focusing on that sort of thing or well, go ahead because

01:41:50 – 01:43:07
I’ll get the house and all the finances and you will have to support me and I mean, what are you saying? Are you saying well go ahead that’ll make me happy or now if you do that and you have to support me then we’ll both be happy they’re forgetting the very basic thing that situation that create now that focusing on the relationships and spiritually speaking it is okay to love as unconditionally as you want to imagine to a newfound friend or a stranger being a married person and I have been in that

01:42:28 – 01:43:37
circumstances thousands of times. Uh for me personally, I have been fortunate and I’m saying it like that because I don’t want to lay full claim to it. On the same token, I do want to state for somebody who doesn’t know me that well is that I have been automatically or culturally conditioned to a very high degree of fervently faithful uh sexually pure, if you will. Don’t get hung up on any of these singular words, but because what I’m really saying is that it’s been natural

01:43:02 – 01:44:16
for me compared to a socially acceptable learn thing or I’ve read the psychology book or I’ve read all the New York State laws. Um, as opposed to that, this has come more natural for me. So, I don’t want to compare myself to anybody else because I know most other people have a much more difficult time dealing with uh should I become uh uh less what’s the word I’m thinking of? Oh, what not being monogous? Uh right toward that. In other words, should I remain monogamous or not? or in

01:43:39 – 01:44:49
the moment of passion and or romance might be a one night thing or I get you in less than 15 minutes and I know about that and I’ve experienced about to that degree but I’ve been well I guess I’m a good manipulator because I’ve been able to turn that around for a little more unconditional or outright uh take my physical hands and stop and just say uh I’m sorry. In other words, I’m able to say no. just say no. I’m I’ve been able to do that on uh several occasions. I can brag

01:44:14 – 01:45:19
and say um but seriously, I’ve been able to say no. Many people can’t and I mean I understand that. So when scenarios like that develop about what to focus on, focus on the short-term effect and then maybe more importantly the long-term effect and what is it that your job is. Like Elaine yelled out and said, if you’re going to be so unconditional and promote love and love and love, don’t deny your spouse and where you’re supposed to be right here, right now. Get that squared away. In

01:44:48 – 01:45:59
other words, go home and clean your house. I said that to a dear friend of mine and he understood what I meant three-fold. I meant his house was in disarray, his physical house, and it needed straightening up and cleaning. I even offered a backhoe to help. Um, I meant go clean your house. Now, you get off the sofa and start moving around and clean your house. But like the house of David in the Bible, I meant clean your house. was clean your own family up before you neglect and shawn and throw away and go off and try to promote this

01:45:22 – 01:46:39
new and wonderful cleanse and more pure and loveydovey situation. Uh and uh a third way which I won’t even bother to go into. Um how are we doing for time? Okay. Uh, did you want to lead me into another thing or Yeah. Well, we I think you covered it except that I know you told me one time fairly recently that in having a a deep and caring relationship with someone, you have 95% of the wonderful part of it without taking that last step and blowing your marriage, their marriage, whatever out of the

01:46:01 – 01:47:32
water. So, you don’t really need that because you already have what’s really most important and you still all respect each other’s commitment and then you don’t lose the friend either. Yeah, that’s not so easily done than than said. Much easier said than done. Um yeah, I’m I don’t know really how to respond to it right away. um is to keep your your friendships or your caring about people proper. See, one of my problems is it’s been so easy and I’ve been able to do that and I know

01:46:45 – 01:48:02
as an example that Elaine has see I can say she has a hangup with regarding certain relationships that I have been involved in recently and she says no nothing should exist. In other words, you should have no relationship at all with this person because of the close call. Oh, right. In other words, that’s the insurance policy and there’s security for Elaine in that and that’s understandable and that’s often the safest way, right? and she can’t truly perceive that either I do right that I do have the capacity

01:47:24 – 01:48:40
for dealing with that and that um this new more unconditional love that I at least claim I didn’t say it like that that at least claim that there is enough power in that to supersede or override the probability of me giving into romantically or sexually or or that which would be socially unacceptable to Ela and my spousal relationship that would jeopardize that. Um, and yet so often, in fact, I even dare say a majority of everybody we’re talking to, a majority of everybody we’re talking to has found themselves in

01:48:02 – 01:49:19
circumstance like that and have not only had a difficult time, but have said, “Yeah, but now that you’ve said all of that, it is just so much better and that I would prefer all of the tradeoffs and not wish to give up this new relationship.” And even Does it mean to the point that if my spouse can’t handle the new me, then that is not necessarily my fault or that it will be better for all of us and certainly better for me to go with this more comfortable, easier or newfound relationship.

01:48:41 – 01:50:07
And I mean that that’s not it’s a true statement and it is easier. And one of the things that we uh so-called spiritually oriented people have to think a lot about and decide is that should it ever be the easier way out and that that what is our real job? I mean should we ever neglect or shun or throw away any of our baggage and where are our priorities and what’s important well of course in an ongoing basis. notice here’s a new development. Well, does this fit into my main priority? And then if yeah, but then you

01:49:24 – 01:50:33
know each stage of the way does what are what are your pri immediate priorities? What is your long range goals? Will it hamper that? Will it fit into that? Now, see, that’s all logical deductive reasoning because where’s we’re bordering on and talking about romance and and as I’ve said, don’t ever make an assumption. Spiritually speaking, don’t ever make an assumption or use logical deductive reasoning when you’re talking about uh romance or or sexual activity. By that I mean another sexual either

01:49:58 – 01:51:04
arousal or activity because where is your conscience or where is your logical deductive reasoning when you’re involved in those emotions or physical um states of mind? And I mean the not only physical states of mind but a state of mind that creates physical sensations that you are out of control with your other faculties. And that’s kind of sounds awfully intellectual but I think there I know in the first case you said something about there’s no such thing as unconditional love not even a mother for

01:50:31 – 01:51:46
a child but in this case like you almost can’t say that unconditional love and romantic love can be they’re not compared at all. Right? They’re not they’re not the same thing. You cannot unconditionally have romantic right. You can’t have you can’t have unconditional romantic love. The word romantic love disqualifies unconditional love and focuses on one little aspect of an expression of love. Because you can have sexual love, which is one of the worst forms of love compared to unconditional

01:51:09 – 01:52:30
love because it is so conditional and it is so emotional and with that usually physically stimulating or and know effective at least that other faculties are totally disoriented or completely out of focus. In other words, can you be intellectual in an orgasm or in a state of ecstasy, romantically speaking? You can be romantically in love with a sunset. And how well do you think you’re going to do math? If you think so, go to the seashore with a paper and pencil. I mean, try this. Rather than a screw up a

01:51:50 – 01:52:51
relationship, try it with one sunset. There’ll be many other sunsets, and you will in your life review will have lost that one sunset. Try it. And then you really allow yourself to to fall in love with romantic love. If you can, you know, distort this the scenario, fall in love with the sunset and then like halfway through it, like the sun is halfway, you know, uh, behind the water, okay? And then force yourself, even have a little alarm clock and time it so that the alarm clock goes off and then quickly go

01:52:20 – 01:53:38
down and do some involved math. I promise you, you won’t be that mechanical. And that’s what I’m saying you know when I was uh regarding this and it affects us in such a way that just don’t expect. Now one of our problems is that we have uh relationships yours and mine and so on where there is such disease in aspects of our relationship that it is just so refreshing and comfortable to be alleviated of that of that state of disease or that problem. And that if this other person shows no

01:52:59 – 01:54:13
signs of that problem that we can be attracted and and uh overwhelmed by this other individual and it can even be in my case it can be a group of people. I mean do I experience ego form of ego in a large group of people? Well you’re damned right I do. I mean I have to. Yeah. I mean I have to. It’s natural. And then is that enough to say, “Well, I know we had this weekend planned, Elaine, but I have a chance to talk to 10,000 people at one time.” And I mean, thank God if it be important

01:53:36 – 01:54:46
enough, I will say, “Well, I’m sorry. This is a once in a-lifetime chance for these 10,000 people for me to talk to. But, you know, I have to focus my energies and so on to to and with Elaine for that weekend. I’m going to turn on this light so that we can wrap up with the final question. Okay. And turn that switch over there too. We get a little more light as we’re speaking of sunsets. Yeah. Uh why don’t we close with um you sharing people with people about the unconditional love in connection with

01:54:10 – 01:55:18
the Berlin Wall. Ah in four minutes. Oh yeah. Three or four minutes. My goodness. Yeah. Well, I said a while ago and I don’t remember the verbatim what I said, but I was giving an analogy and I said, well, let me give you an example because it was just prior to what developed with the um uh recognition that the Berlin Wall was no longer opo and it it started to come down and it’s continuing to do so. Thank God. Um I said, well, let me give you an example. How many army tanks would it take to

01:54:45 – 01:55:53
obliterate the entire Berlin Wall? physically impossible. There are not that many army tanks and it cannot physically be done. If you lined them all up side by side and they all fired at the same time and emptied their caches of arms, there would still be this rubble and the wall would still be there. Okay? And even if the tank stayed there for five months doing that day after day after day till their barrels melted down, the wall and the rubble and the symbolic gesture would still be there. an attitudinal change of a group

01:55:19 – 01:56:33
of people or many people or a realization attitudinally that this is no longer acceptable. And what took place? People brought roses and instead of army tanks, they brought roses. They climbed on the wall and handed them to the guards that a month before would have machine gunned them to death. An attitudinal change says this is no longer religiously, socially or politically acceptable. And what is this? Let’s stop this. The wall is coming down. Symbolically, this is the new age. This is what we’re preaching

01:55:56 – 01:57:13
about. This is what we’re striving for. Attitudinal change is more powerful than a atomic bomb, a nuclear holocaust, than arms and stuff like this. There’s still currently a need for some of that stuff during the transition, but this is what we’re striving for. Relationships, attitudinal changes. You and most of you viewing this have already had or are into attit attitudinal changes spiritually speaking. strive, take time, spend money, effort of showing and teaching your spouse and your close friends that

01:56:35 – 01:57:37
they have the ability first of all of changing their attitude. Don’t say you have a bad attitude or you have an attitude as the teenagers do because that’s confrontational. But show them that an attitudal change is better. Be that example, if you will, kind of philosophically speaking, be that example. And with attitudinal change will become the reality. And of course, as something is better and better and better, try to promulgate it that way. I’m still it’s 11 years from my near-death experience.

01:57:06 – 01:58:12
And I’m verently, fanatically at times striving for this with Elaine. I get her angry at me. She woke up two mornings ago, I believe it was. She says, “I don’t want to be philosophized to.” And in spite of that request, I still did for about 15 minutes. I mean, did that aggravate her? Did that help her? What was the tradeoff? Well, in hindsight, I’m not totally sorry that I did it anyway, that I spoke about one particular aspect or one thing because it’s almost uncontrollable me that I can’t give that

01:57:40 – 01:58:53
up. I mean, with everything that I know and that I’ve learned, I have to keep trying. I’m not obsessive about it. law again that’s argumentative in itself uh but I mean I realize that I may fail not a ultimate challenge for me and yet I may be contradicting myself because I make it a priority so it is a challenge and I want this I wish this and even if I’m never satisfied by my measurements by my judgmental statements as to how much I’ve been able to show share and teach my wife Elaine and she of course

01:58:16 – 01:59:02
ongoing is doing that to and for me. I mean, I’m receiving every bit as much from her as I can from her, especially the fact that day after day I need more and I have to do more. But again, the focus, the attitudal change and so on. And you can apply that with everything. What do you think? Thank you. Namaste.