Tom Sawyer talks about his Near Death Experience, Carol asks questions. Recorded in July, 1989. Duration: 1h 47mins. (22 pages)

 

Raw Transcript:

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folks that are here that have not met you and they’ve maybe never even heard of Tom Sawyer other than back in the book with a straw hat. Well, that’s easy to start out with. First of all, I’m sorry. uh um you want to fill them in on Okay, we’ll do the super capsized version of what happened to me and and why I’m sitting here in front of this camera talking to you today. Um 11 years ago, I had a truck fall on me right here in my driveway and had the truck jacked up with the front wheels off it. The truck

 

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at that time weighed about two ton and the truck fell on me and fell right across my chest right in this area here and squeezed all the air out of me and made me unable to breathe for a little over 15 minutes in time. Many things took place in the accident, including me having very profound uh personalized and private thoughts such as uh how degrading this was that if in fact I die this way, that it wasn’t good enough for me. Now, I don’t mean that arrogantly. I mean that uh I was a very

 

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good mechanic and this wasn’t fair because it wasn’t my fault that the truck fell on me. There were air pockets underneath the ash vault and the driveway collapsed. So, it wasn’t my fault. It was Asha. Um, with that excuse and so on and with that rationale that I simply had to be where I was and be still. There’s a few things that you should know about me at the time. Um, one of which was that 50 pounds ago, I was a national caliber athlete. I was in excellent physical shape, very strong. I

 

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was very uh assure of myself and my abilities. I was, as I mentioned, a good mechanic. I had the ability to hold my breath for over three minutes in time. Um, I usually did my own work. It’s not that I wouldn’t allow anybody else to do work for me, but I was usually very honestly the most qualified, including working on my truck. So, should also stereotype myself a little bit and tell you that at the time I was an agnostic. I’ve been brought up a Christian Catholic and in spite of uh the the so-called

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learning and making my communion and confirmation around the age of 13, I decided that that was very bluntly just uh religious stuff, hocus pocus baloney, and that it really had no bearing on my personal life. In other words, very bluntly, I had no personal relationship with any kind of a god. Um, with a truck falling on me, that changed very instantly and very dramatically. And it wasn’t just that I almost died. It was very bluntly that I was able to see God, experience that. Um, and realistically for the first time

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in my life. Um, also I was pretty much an all-American guy at the time. was 33 years old and married with two children. At that time, my son Todd was 10 years old. He was assisting me working on the truck and as soon as the truck fell, he ran in and called the paramedics. So some of the scientific information we get about the accident was for instance it was called in at 7:41 in the evening and uh shortly after 8:00 that evening the paramedics arrived at the driveway and rushed up to assist me in my extrication and my

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survival. Uh during that time many things happened. One of which was as I was going unconscious after uh a couple of brutal brutal brutal Yeah, that’s right. Frut feudal. I knew it was something like that. Uh feudal attempts to ward off the uh oxygen deprivation and the uh onset of the un unconscious state, you know, where you shake your head no and try real hard. some intensive thoughts were in my head that it’s more important to struggle and hang on and live than it is to just give in

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and die. And that was at the point where it was physically um physically uh acceptable or okay to just give in and pass out, have all the pain and suffering and so on like that just go away. In spite of that, you know, I did care about life. Uh an attitude like that is important. in the last few seconds of a traumatic experience or a state of disease, especially if it’s terminal. And I felt that way and I was appreciative of the last few seconds in time to struggle a little further. But I did get u to the point of

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unconsciousness and as I went unconscious, I had the experience of seeing. And when I say seeing, I don’t necessarily mean seeing with my physical eyes. was seeing um at least hypothetically the experience it felt exactly the same as seeing and what I was seeing was blotches or flashes of various colors. They were very beautiful. It was very enjoyable. I don’t have any scientific explanation whatsoever for what this was or why I saw it in the way that I did, but um I first tried to describe it and said

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that it was all the colors of the spectrum. And then I learned and realized that that includes infrared and ultraviolet. And I still say that it certainly was that and that I experienced the extreme uh visual connotation of various colors and uh colors such as opolescences, phosphoresences, fluoresences that of course I have not been able to duplicate and it was very enjoyable and nice. Well, with it no explanation as to either exactly what that was or why I experienced it even 11 years later, the

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experience went on to just having a state of unconsciousness. Uh I had a feeling of being completely unconscious, everything blank and nothing to describe at all. And then rather instantaneously having the experience of waking up from that state. And when I say waking up, I didn’t get up because the truck was still on me. Um, I didn’t necessarily open my eyes or take a breath. I wasn’t able to do that. So what we’re really talking about is from a physically unconscious state where the last few heartbeats were

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experienced and my heart was stopped and of course all all the other organs were slowing down to the point and this experience of absolutely waking up was just my mind and possibly some brain functioning going on and the perceptions that I had is what I’m describing to you now. Those pres uh uh perceptions were um feeling absolutely awake. Everything was vivid and clear. I had the same sensations as being able to hear accurately uh see as well as as I’ve ever seen and I’ve always had good vision.

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you know, even though I’ll describe to you paradoxically that there was that there was no um uh I lost my train of thought when a friend friend just drove by. Yeah, there was a sense of timelessness. I realized that very bluntly there was no such thing as time. Um and in this timeless state I had the experience of for instance trying to look trying to experience where am I what’s going on here and looking around just as though you would do it physically it was you know same feeling same sensations as

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that looking around and thinking what in the world is this where am I and being able to only see absolute darkness there were no identifiable objects was absolutely black opaque And with this realization, even though I wasn’t frightened by this, this was still comfortable. The next experience that I can describe to you is having that darkness or blackness just take the shape of a tunnel. Shape of a tunnel is the best description as far as I’m concerned. I’ve heard other people in the last 11 years say a funnel, a

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tube, an abyss, or abyss, various other descriptions. But I like the idea of a tunnel because it’s cylindrical. It extends forward uh in my circumstance to infinity. Um it was ever so slightly funnel shaped allowing for the depth perception. With this realization in the sighting of this tunnel, I had the feeling that I was moving forward and it was straightforward, well balanced, comfortable and through the center of this tunnel. That forward motion increased in speed. Although there was not wind, vibration,

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uh sound, there was certainly a visual connotation of the tunnel flashing around me or me going through the center of that. Uh but there were no G forces like we would normally experience an acceleration with this acceleration. However, um the first empirical piece of knowledge that I gained from this outof body experience or near-death experience was that I realized and I simply realized that let’s say intuitively I realized that I attained the speed of light or possibly faster than the speed of

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light. Uh at that time in my life I didn’t understand what that meant. I didn’t realize that it was physically impossible. I didn’t realize um uh anything at all about Albert Einstein’s theories and relativity and I was not aware of mathematically that it’s basically 186,000 m a second. I knew that it was very very fast. But more importantly and more accurately, I knew that whatever whoever I was at that time and I felt as though I was myself. Tom Sawyer and all my character and characteristics that I

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was going or functioning at the speed of light. So whisking through this tunnel, the next thing that I’ll describe to you is that way off and paradoxically to infinity was this minute little speck of light. Um that light was very profound. It was the first identifiable object that I was able to perceive or see. So I was eagerly anticipating what is that and isn’t that beautiful? And with that realization, it was even more profound because that little speck of light way way off in the distance was very bluntly

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the most beautiful thing that I had ever experienced in my life. It was absolute total beauty. It was white. Sometimes we like to dress up white by saying blue white like we try to grade diamonds and such. Um, it was absolutely pure. It was brighter than something that would immediately blind you. It was the brightest thing that I’d ever experienced. Brighter than a 100,000 carbon arcs or welder’s torches, various things of brightness that we could measure. Um, it will it was at least the equivalent and

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brilliance of a supernova. Um, it was also other than beautiful, it represented a type of love that I’d never experienced. Uh, now I can use the phrase unconditional love, although I wasn’t familiar with that phrase at the time of this accident. Uh, as I got closer to it, it’s incorrect for me to say that the light got better because I’m trying to describe perfection for you. Once you attain perfection, you can’t get better than that. you can’t have something improved. And in spite of that

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dilemma, it is paradoxically accurate for me to say that it was more perfect. It was better and better. And in the last several years, a realization has come that if you have something that is perfect and you’re observing it or you’re experiencing it, it can’t get any better. But you and your perceptions can get clearer and more accurate. So, as I developed a better sense of what it was I was experiencing, that’s where I have the the sensation or the realization that things got better or clearer and

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more accurate. Um, there was some type of a deceleration in this tunnel because the next thing that I want to describe to you is that I was motionless. I was stopped at the end of the tunnel and I had a realization. Let’s just call it intuitive again that behind me was this tunnel. I did not turn around to verify it. Say to turn around and look at it. It wasn’t necessary. Much more importantly was before me and then covering the entire vista before me just totally engulfing everything was the

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light. As I approached the end of that tunnel, I realized that the light itself was emanating from outside the end of the tunnel. It was not the very end of the tunnel. It was engulfing whatever the realm was outside this tunnel. Um, and again, that might just be symbolism. It might just be um a focused perception onto the aspect of the light. And once that perception is focused accurately enough to perceive any degree of it, then there’s no longer the need for the symbolic tunnel or funneling or focusing. I like those

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phrases. Interesting. Um I’ve never quite told it that way. I think it shines a little different light on the subject. Um before me was the light and instantaneously and I want to emphasize instantaneously the light emanated to me in a telepathic way and you know let’s let me first say and get out of the way that very bluntly the light is God the light is the light of Jesus Christ the light of Buddha enlightened and of course uh if you’re offended by this Eastern uh analogy that uh this man Buddha that I’m saying is

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also the light and God. I’m not saying that he the man Buddha is God. I’m saying that a man who became Buddha and extremely enlightened has passed on and is now in that light and therefore godlike. Um that’s what I’m describing. But as I first perceived it, I just perceived that the light emanated to me and made me understand that some most profound things such as and I’ll role play again to describe the dialogue of sorts that I kind of translated for instance the light emanated to me uh Tom you have to be

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where you are and in the condition that you are and before you is the light which is redundant because I was already experiencing Um, you have an opportunity, Tom, to perceive or desire or ask any question, any series of questions. And regardless of what the question is or how how intensive the knowledge is necessary to even understand a proper questioning that as soon as you formulate the desire for such a question, that the absolute unequivocable correct answer will be emanated instantly back to you. Now what

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I’m describing is a thing that I’ve a phrase that I’ve coined which is very accurate and it’s super lumininal telepathic communication in that it’s a telepathic type of rapport just thought pattern to thought pattern that functions at or faster than the speed of light little loose ends tied together and u this was not just logical deductive reasoning uh this is something that I was shown and told as part of the experience Uh, in other words, if you’re so inclined to understand anything at all

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about clairvoyance, it would be a telepathic clairvoyant type rapport that is extremely pure or functioning at such a speed that is outside the realm of this physical existence and outside time. If you function at the speed of light, you cease to function in what we know as time. So your perceptions would be at the speed of light and any kind of dialogue would be u not held by the the the bonds of timelessness or timeliness and that if you ask something you can be given the answer simultaneously

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uh I ask many questions and to capsulize that just to give you an idea of what would be a question that I would ask again it’s incorrect for me to say first question, second question, third question because you’re missing the point of the timelessness and missing the idea behind super luminal telepathic communication. But one of the questions which in all probability would have been a first would be am I okay? And I didn’t mean am I alive or dead because I’d already experienced my heart stopping

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and realizing that I was at least clinically dead. Um in that capacity I was asking am I okay? In other words, in God’s eyes, am I all right? Am I okay? And I can kind of smile and brag and say thumbs up. And for the moment being at least, that everything was all right? And then the most profound questions uh in hindsight of this experience, I would kind of damn myself and say, why didn’t I ask for a particular cure to a type of cancer? So that now that I’m here and having had this experience, I could share that with

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a major university and be able to facilitate something that was not selfish or just about me and share it with the rest of the world. Well, the timelessness of that seemed to be more timely than anything else in that I was limited as to the degree of questions and so on. I wasn’t limited to the type of question, but just the degree of my perceptions of what I needed to know before I went on with this experience. And one of those questions was very bluntly, what about the Jesus stuff? And in that capacity, understanding again

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that I was an agnostic at the time, but at least curious enough to know like many people question, come on, all kidding aside, what about that Jesus stuff? I mean, is it real or isn’t it? And uh you know some people can have very profound faith and they can fervently believe and follow Christianity and be a good Christian and still still that little bit of doubting Thomas in them saying you know some of the fine details perhaps of uh who was Jesus the Christ? What is the Christ? What is the Christ

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like? Where is it? How is it perceived? Am I that? are you that? Um, so very bluntly I asked, “What about the Jesus stuff?” And of course that’s a translated version of the desire to know all that. So it was emanated for the moment being at least thumbs up in the affirmative that it was okay. And that one singular question, that one desire really the questions were answered. Um, was there this man Jesus of Nazareth? Did he walk around and have a ministry so to speak? Was he divine? Is he divine? Where is he now?

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In other words, what about all the Jesus stuff? And that was answered. I was able to see that, perceive it. Well, that’s what I call the question and answer period. Um, part of that question and answer period was a realization that I had a choice. And the choice for me was that I could desire to return to normal life. And the instant that I had that desire, the instant that I perceived that or wished for that that it would happen absolutely and that there would be no strings attached that as soon as I decided that I would wish

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to return to normal life, it would happen. The other half of that choice was that I could stay and become part of that light. And you have to understand first where I am in what I’m describing. I’m talking about perfection. I’m talking about the heaven state. I’m talking about God. And even though life is beautiful, we’ve got flowers around us and all kinds of relationships and uh learning experiences, what I’m really describing is an opportunity to finalize that and move on to the next stage in our lives,

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which is what we call after death. And of course, to be in that state of perfection is not much of a choice at all. Many other people I found have a choice given to them and they feel deep in their heart that there are unfinished business that they have to come back for a reason or that they’re just not ready to die or they can’t quite handle this much right now or that there’s a selfishness of s sorts meaning that they don’t feel it’s proper for they to leave their children or or the many excuses

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why people would desire to return from um a clinical death state or what we called life after death. For me, it was not much of a choice at all. I do have to interrupt the flow of this description and say that prior to my decision, I had to also have a complete total life review. And you cannot have a decision. A decision will not be allowed without the person’s perception of their own life and perceived not only as they have lived it, but perceived with total knowledge, unconditional love and

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learning experiences that you have learned subconsciously and superconsciously that you may not be intellectually or psychologically aware of. Um I had the life review and I’ll describe that in a minute or two but I want to go on with the the choice that I was given. I was given this choice and only after having a life review very bluntly I chose to stay and become part of that life. The problem with that and trying to sort this out with researchers and try to describe to people like yourself is that there was a string

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attached to the decision to stay and become part of that light and that it was emanated to me that if I decided to stay and become part of that light that at that point I would cease to function normally. I would no longer be exactly myself, that I would be an actual integral part of the light. Or bear with me if I say that I would be light and that would disallow me forever after to choose on my own decision with my own characteristics and character to return to normal life. So in other words,

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bluntly and simplistically, I could choose to return to normal life and it would happen. If I chose to stay, I would never be able to choose to return again. Now that you understand that, I did choose to stay and become part of that life. And as sorry as I feel for myself sometimes, I don’t have any explanation as to exactly how like manipulatively or physically speaking, exactly how I was able to return to normal life or if there’s a rationale or a reason or an excuse. I was never told

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or shown an a single or a multiple excuse or excuses for being here now. I’m pleased that I’m here now. I’m satisfied. I’m probably the happiest person that you will ever meet, generally speaking. Uh I have my ups and downs. Uh I have physical problems. I even have to experience major surgery at times. So all the very realistic parts of living are very much back in my life. And I do honestly at times feel a little selfish and a little sad. In other words, lonely for that state of perfection. I’m very

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eagerly anticipating my natural death. Um but this what we call life is temporary. And if it be for a job that I haven’t finished, if it be that I was not really qualified and got kicked out of heaven, um it doesn’t really matter too much the rationale behind it. The important point is that I have returned and that I’ve been very very fortunate. Um and being able to facilitate many things that I certainly would never have been able to accomplish. And trust me, I’m not being arrogant or

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egotistical now, but things that really would not have been able to be facilitated if I had not come back. Um, in other words, with that which I was enhanced by, with that which I was allowed to learn, I’m trying not to take credit for it. In other words, it’s not my fault. It’s only In other words, there also a little phrase that I I worked my way up through. And if you’ve ever heard the phrase that um there is no justice in nature, there’s only nature. In other words, the lion does kill an antelope.

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That’s part of the food chain. And it’s not the poor lion is going to go hungry or the poor antelope is going to be killed. In other words, there’s no justice in nature. There’s only nature. And it was by God. And as rational as we try to be and justifiable, uh you should not question God. Uh you should question yourself and your personal relationship with God, but you should not question the workings of nature to that degree. And you should not make those judgment calls that a rabbit should live but a mouse should

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not. Um and in that capacity there does not have to be an excuse or a rationale for me to be kicked out of heaven or set back in coming back. Um however that did happen. Are there some people and some situations that you were made aware of that you needed to be here? Yes, Carol. Even you. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Um well are you really asking um I know there’s as soon as I return was I aware of well I don’t know if it’s that or as you’re living and you come across situations you have a sense of where

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your time needs to be spent or the certain people yeah I’ve yeah I’ve experienced a lot of that I’d never heard of the word uh synchronicity as uh you know we use it so commonly now uh I thought that there were coinc incidences and things of that nature. Uh that there was a lot of luck. There was some just victims of circumstances was very simplistically thought out if I thought of it at all. And now I see that there are many many synchronistic series of events that can both lead you even manipulate you but

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you have also free will so that um you know in regarding any given circumstance you can accept or reject anything. You have free will. Uh yes I do. Oh that was a loaded question and I answered it and I was smiling. Um yes I really do. um you know as as much as any human being I do uh I’ve been given some knowledge and in other words my my five senses and several other senses have been enhanced and I still will agree that I have free will over all of that but with some of that knowledge there comes a responsibility too. See, I

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want to tell you that I have responsibilities, but they’re not manipulative. In other words, I’m not a I’m not a victim and I’m not being led. Uh although I have I realize additional responsibilities. Um you know, do I have free will and can I just stop talking and uh can I commit suicide? Can I uh become lustful? Can I become anything that I might desire to be or or allow myself to fall into any of these problems, often problems that people experience on a day-to-day basis? Uh yes, I can do any of that. I can uh

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deplete my physical body as I have done to a large degree. Um some manipulative on my part, others on purpose. and um other things that I don’t have control over such as uh the degree of the injury to my back. Um I didn’t have control over that. It’s something that uh you know it was an accident and I have to take the responsibility for that to a degree, but that wasn’t my fault either. So if you would think in terms of of being a victim of circumstances or being manipulated in that way, well maybe

00:30:37 – 00:31:51
that’s so but I don’t feel that way. I feel as though I am in control of myself. Um because free will is probably the most powerful gift that God has given the human condition. And I talked about that in great detail before and I don’t think I can talk about that right this moment. Um there were individuals that I was aware of and I got you know let me first by uh kind of saying that I was basically a rather ignorant person regarding subjects as we’re talking about now and it was very

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strange for me to have a very profound perception of individuals such as Mox Blanc Neils Boore Warner Heisenberg and eagerly anticipating meeting I didn’t know what city they lived in, but I knew them very well. I knew them as though they were a next-door neighbor. And it was uh shocking and a little sad for me to be told by another physicist that, well, Tom, you talk about them as though you would like to meet them. And I said, well, I would. And then he announced to me that they had died and that they were no longer

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alive. And of course through my ignorance I didn’t realize that they were famous physicists and around the turn of the century. So that was a little shocking to me. It was strange but I had that profound awareness as though they were a cousin or a nextdoor neighbor. That’s one aspect. In other words, I was aware of a personal relationship with individuals who had passed on. Um, I became aware of individuals walking around and so on, going to conferences and what have you. I would see someone in a crowded room and just

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walk over and introduce myself socially, politely, but profoundly knowing that I had to say something specifically to that individual. Um sometimes it would be only that information that whoever that person is over there I must tell them about the Meisner effect or some s uh subject and then uh it’s even come to pass like I just mentioned the Meisner effect which is a in physics and I might mention it out loud and then have to go to a book and look it up. It might be very important for me to say something about it, which let’s

00:33:08 – 00:34:20
say spiritually I might have been aware of, but then in my own personal interest, I would have to look it up to find out what it really meant. So, does that mean that I was sent back with bits and pieces of information uh to help other people? Sure. I mean, okay. I’ve already accepted that and it’s it’s happened so many times that it’s not loop or a coincidence or I’m not playing a a super head game or even a psychic head game, which is possible. Uh you can be psychic to a degree and

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know enough to play what I’ll call head games or mind games, you know, just for the purposes of sensationalism and even to make a profit or excuses and rationals like that. And I haven’t really fallen into that. I I’ll call it a trap for me. In other words, that would be a trap for me. I would not wish to do that and in 11 years uh I haven’t done that. Uh should I just briefly say because you were talking about the experience summarize that uh I had a complete life review. Uh I was given

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additional information. I blended into that light and in the very last stage that I can possibly remember with any accuracy, it was a return trip through the tunnel again with no excuses or rationale, but uh and I slammed back into my body at the same time the truck was lifted off me and I was revived. Okay, Tom, going back to your your reference to God’s unconditional love, how does that uh relate to sin. [Music] Sin I tried that um well I don’t know I I if somebody else would have asked me that

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question somebody else would ask that I would have probably like oneon-one I would have asked them what is your definition of sin and work off that. Um I think the difference between ourselves and as we and I’m kind of stereotyping or generalizing everybody that we have a perception of sin and of course it’s selfimposed even if it be a cultural conditioning others you’re taught that’s good that’s bad and that’s so bad that’s a sin as opposed to something that’s not quite as bad is not

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really a sin it’s just a little bit bad. Uh further than that, you do have natural instincts uh such as if you uh do something uh to hurt someone’s feelings, you will intuitively know even ahead of time that this will probably hurt someone’s feelings. Or if you do act it out or say it or do it, you will then experience that this hurt a person’s feelings. And then you have immediately two choices. block it psychologically shun it and justify it and do all those things and justify that no you didn’t sin or you

00:36:25 – 00:37:53
didn’t do a bad thing that it was either justifiably bad or that it was just plain bad but so what uh or totally block it. Um that may or may not be a sin at that point in time. Uh I think the biggest problem with sin is that we for I’m talking me for me and therefore generalizing about everybody is that the things uh the sins of omission and commission that we perform or that we are responsible for in a lifetime are vastly unpersceived. the numbers of inadequacies, the numbers of perpetuated things that is to perform

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or to do something that is sinful or negative or bad. Um, that we don’t even perceive them on a conscious level. I guess what I’m trying to uh relate to is that most of us were brought up to feel that when you pass over uh there’d be this scale that this big bad person getting into judgment, right? Sure. That this is what you did good and this is what you did bad. And based on all of that, you would either go to heaven or go to hell. And in terms of what you experience with God’s unconditional

00:37:47 – 00:39:03
love, I think that as opposed to having a transitional state that would include an aspect of purgatory or a hellish experience or um a time frame, if you will, that you don’t go right from this life, the express lane, right into the light or into the heaven state, that that can be perceived with some degree of accuracy as a cause and effect relationship from um still gotten gains or or um negative deeds, things of that nature. Uh but generally I was rather shocked, if you will. I mean, one of the

00:38:26 – 00:39:45
most profound things I learned is that there was no such thing as hell. That um that the things that I had been taught and shown were terrible deeds and that don’t you dare say or do this or don’t you dare think this way or act this way is that um that was not in fact a sin and it wasn’t perceived as that. Plus the fact that God certainly the God that I experienced is an allloving God and that even though there are a very few rare circumstances where uh in a transitional state or after death I’ll

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say it that way after death there can be a reparation or a a further learning experience uh if not from condemnation. will be more perceived as just a a magnificent loving gesture on the part of God to give you not really a second chance but to give you the uh opportunity for a learning experience to overcome our human inadequacies be they psychological, spiritual or any other way physical all of those things. in getting into the word judgment a little more as we kind of do with each other a lot.

00:39:49 – 00:41:04
Um could you talk to the spiritual teacher who is giving you guidelines or whatever how with a sense of if you don’t follow their teachings that there’s some sort of a judgment that goes along with it. How do you see a spiritual teacher? Yeah, generally I I know that that idea uh know that most churches is a good example can always pick on churches because uh their dogma and their documentation and things like that are in print and you can point to them, you can translate them and so on. Yeah, I

00:40:28 – 00:41:43
think that’s generally unfortunate because with the best of intentions, the original uh fathers, if you will or creators of the religion or the Islam had good intentions and then the first time they ran into say a teenager or a child who was uh just persistent and dancing when they’re supposed to be sitting meditating or praying or doing a ritual and they simply want to dance instead and be obnoxious by their standing when in fact uh in God’s infinite wisdom to have a child jump up and dance would be beautiful to me. Um

00:41:05 – 00:42:22
sure again with the best of intentions they’ve set these rules and regulations which often limit creativity and actuality which means real true uh to the point where it’s been degraded to the point of if you don’t do this in this exact way you will be punished. The original uh sentences that were like that is if for instance you don’t maintain a degree of realization of the spiritual level or or your own personal spirituality or your own personal relationship with God then you will pay the price of being without

00:41:43 – 00:43:01
that meaning that you will be only physical or only psychological or only spiritual in a perverted way. Now that’s a you know That’s a relative statement only have to be perceived by the individual but um that’s a little confusing perhaps. So for instance for you to only be physical and saying well this feels good so it’s okay to do it and then a physical stimulus of some sort and then that’s more of this is better and to do this all the time would be perfect or great and that’s not the true human condition.

00:42:22 – 00:43:27
The human condition is a combination of diseases and states of ease. Um feelings of ecstasy, feelings of remorse and depression. It’s combination of all those things often times in cycles, often times spontaneous. And that’s the true human condition. And nobody should be forced to do without that. That’s there’s a lot of philosophy mixed in that statement right there. And you know, as I’m saying it, I’m realizing what I’m saying. and uh you know get off on many many tangents. I’m trying not to

00:42:55 – 00:43:59
do that right now. Uh philosophical issues, but it boils down to what is right, what is wrong. Well, the fact that we live in a structured society of any sort, be it local or the entire society of the big blue marble or all of us on on the mother earth. We do have to have certain rules and regulations otherwise we’ll self-destruct. Uh there are people who are greedy, more greedy than you and I. There are people who are manipulative. And again, don’t be judgmental. It may or may not be their

00:43:27 – 00:44:37
fault. They may by an act of free will desire to be this that intermingling of all all of we. Sometimes it can boil right down to what they call or what we call good and evil. And there is that constant mixture and therefore battle going on. Well, um, the way I experienced my life review, it was not any of that. It was no two-sided thing at all. It was this intermixure of me perceiving every single thing that I had done in my life. Whatever age I was at 9 years old, I had the perceptions of a 9

00:44:02 – 00:45:13
years old, 9year-old. At 20 years old, at 33 years old, same thing. the perceptions as I experienced it. Any event, time frame, um, aspect, feeling, learning experiences just exactly the way it was in what we call reality. But at the same time, I would perceive each of those things in extreme slow motion, meaning that I would be able to count the number of eye blinks, which are unimportant philosophically, but they may not be. In other words, were you so nervous that you constantly blinked out of just nervousness while

00:44:37 – 00:45:46
you talked to your teacher or talked to your friend when you were nine years old? Uh or did you blink because you had an injury to your eye or did you blink because of the brightness of the sun today? I mean there can be cause and effect relationships with everything everything your attitude alone. Um also with any single event or any time frame equally I had the experience of perceiving that Bear with me if I say this because I you know I I I wish to I really wish to be so humble is to not ever have to say

00:45:13 – 00:46:24
this or claim this. But I in my life review had the perceptions of as in the eyes of God or or as in in the eyes of Jesus Christ or the Christ light and had the perception of unconditional love. uh unconditional love. A quick explanation. Many people uh right away think in terms of things that are not unconditional love but are very divine and high states of love. The love of a mother for a child. Perfect example. You know to use that analogy. Perfect example. It is not unconditional love. It’s one of the most

00:45:49 – 00:46:51
conditional love that there is. The fact that the mother will put herself, her own life, her own well-being in harm’s way to protect her child or for the betterment of her child, very divine as it is. I mean, beautiful motherly love. But that is a condition that is an extraordinary condition. One of the ultimate conditions, that’s conditional love. It is not unconditional love. The love that I’m talking about is the love that God has for us. Agape. Agape is a perfect word. Look it up in the

00:46:20 – 00:47:34
dictionary. Look it up in theology and so on or wherever wherever you can find it. Look it up. Agath is is God’s unconditional love for that which is the human condition. And in that capacity God does not say that is bad, that is good. God may possibly say that is history but only has the capacity to love that which God created. I mean it’s a paradox and we westerners especially westerners have a difficult time dealing with a paradox for anything even a two-sided paradox let alone a multi-sided

00:46:57 – 00:48:16
paradox. Should I say more about unconditional love? Um no I don’t think so. Um you’ve been known to say that you’d be comfortable in any church or synagogue. So in terms of all the different choices of religions and everything. Okay. Well, of course, God loves the human condition. Part of the human condition for right now is Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Dowoism, Shintoism, Catholicism, all the isms and all theologies. God loves all of those people. Are the Christians more accurate? Are they on a faster road, a

00:47:36 – 00:48:47
better ladder type escalative uh spiritual awareness? Not necessarily. I mean, I know some very Christian people who don’t know the word Christ. I’ve come to know them. I I mentioned the word Christ to them. So, uh that’s no longer true. As a matter of fact, um uh no, I can feel very comfortable in a ritual, a religious ritual. What takes place or what do I do that some people may not be able to do? I wouldn’t even brag about it. It’s just that I can see into now uh the spiritual

00:48:12 – 00:49:53
aspect or the spiritual desire, the spiritual fulfillment of any within reason. I mean realistically uh any bonafide or or loving uh religious ritual. If it be a Catholic mass, if it be uh uh in a dowist uh temple, a Buddhist temple, uh a festival of some sort, uh shu on Friday night, uh any of those things that they are in all of their humility and humbleness uh reaching for answers and and praying and loving upwardly uh toward God. Uh if it does not include Christ and the Christ life, I can still see the the love uh

00:49:02 – 00:50:04
the desire for love, the desire for knowledge. You see, I to say this more sentences, I’d be contradicting myself, which I don’t mind doing anymore. That used to really bother me to contradict myself. And I really love it when I do contradict myself, somebody call me on it and say, “Well, you’ve just said the opposite.” For instance, uh, can a person who has never mentioned the word Jesus Christ be a Christian? The answer is yes. Yes. I mean, God doesn’t have, well, you are my select group and you

00:49:33 – 00:50:43
are not. Um, this common phrase that we hear so much about and so many people have found solace in in following and perceiving born again Christians, meaning a select group Um, I for one can very well be a born again Christian and yet not go to one of their churches. They would argue that that is impossible because they are the select few and everybody else is wrong and bad. No, the God that I experience is all-encompassing. It’s much greater than that. Uh, the God that I experience is not that narrow-minded.

00:50:09 – 00:51:31
Being that this is a would be considered a new age conference, I at one time had the opportunity to go to a an analysis of what the new age is. And one of the comments was that um the new age people think that God is within and therefore if you think God is within you, you think you’re God, which means you become selfish because you aren’t accountable to a God. How can you uh Yeah, here we go again with uh cyclical conditions. You know, we are often very cyclical in many ways. Uh I’m

00:50:50 – 00:52:05
not just talking about uh a year in time or uh an age from around the chronological age for man of 9, then 12 or 13, then 33ish, by the way. Um and then again in what they call the golden years of uh it was originally uh 50 55ish and now it’s extended up to 65 and 70ish chronologically speaking. And of course what it is it’s that combination of uh psychological philosophical wisdom uh spiritual by way of religious teachings religious fervor therefore spiritual realization all those things.

00:51:27 – 00:52:52
Wow I lost my train of thought. We’re We’re talking about um thinking that you’re God or um that that combination of that which we all are. I’ll talk about the problem of that analogy or that way of thinking. Uh to see someone in utter ecstasy at the edge of the lake or at the edge of the ocean with their arms stretched out and yelling I mean declaring out to the universe that I am God. That can be egotistical. It can be detrimental. It can also be extremely I mean profoundly ecstatic, divinely

00:52:09 – 00:53:41
ecstatic and a profound realization that the I me the I am within me is an aspect of God and that u atonement or atonement or atunement. And if in fact with a mixture of my psychology, philosophy and so on, physical being can be attuned with and at one with that profound realization of that universal God. Not necessarily that God just within me, but that God that is within me and equally simultaneously um uh homogeneously in the entire universe. That’s very profound and beautiful and divine.

00:52:55 – 00:54:09
So again, it’s an individual thing that you and I at any time that we may come to realize such a thing uh say to teach this to a young ignorant innocent child to say such a thing at the edge of the water would be ridiculous. It would be stupid in my opinion to watch that child, observe that child and possibly even teach that child at that at a certain time in their lives they may feel this and experience this and wish to express such a thing then that would be okay. I mean it’s a judgmental thing

00:53:32 – 00:54:53
again on on our part u then that would be okay um to take upon yourself that you answer only to yourself and to that God within you. Do you have any idea what you’re taking on yourself? And should anybody should I ever dare do that? Well, if you look at it that way and saying do I have that kind of responsibility? Can I handle such a thing? And the true answer, the real answer is no. A vast vast majority of the people cannot be responsible a day later or a month later having had that very pure divine

00:54:13 – 00:55:33
realization. But cyclically they’ll be in a depressive state, a selfish state, a less humble state, any kind of normal conditions in the human condition. And then that’s no longer true. It can be true for one moment, not true for the next. So if if we were to um go within for inner guidance when we hear all many different kinds of religious thoughts and philosophies and whatever to see what truth is for us is that sort of a safe measurement. I know some people like go to a particular book

00:54:52 – 00:56:05
or a particular learn. See, generally I personally have recommended and recommend that you learn something new. You read a new philosophy, you experience a new religious technique or um uh I lost meet a new teacher. Yeah. A new teacher. Any of those things or just have a a uh some type of an experience at the GP. Just reading a book. And I don’t mean to say just reading a book or learning anything new. Sure. Don’t decide right then and there. That’s it. Do you know how many times I’ve yelled

00:55:29 – 00:56:32
to my wife Elaine and and a degree of ecstasy and say this book is perfect. This book is it’s a quantum physics book, but it says it says something about the existence of God. It’s right. Well, this was my perception of that book at that time. Five years later, I laughed hysterically at the loving rather pure childishness of the way I thought that that was perfection. And we have these stepping stones. So whenever you say this is it, be careful because a day later, a month later, a year later,

00:56:01 – 00:57:14
you’re going to be saying the same thing at a different intensity, a different level, if you will, a different perception of the same thing. So be careful of that. But yes, one thing that I do recommend is that you have certain amount of knowledge, scholastic learning, teachers, teaching, uh you learn from religious instruction, learn from spiritual conferences and so on. Sure, get excited. Give yourself the opportunity to be ecstatic whenever you can. I mean, do that. I recommend that. But 48 hours later or the next day or

00:56:37 – 00:57:46
couple of days later, be alone. Be still. Don’t have the cultural conditioning. Don’t have your mother or mother-in-law saying that’s wrong, that’s wrong, that’s wrong. Because you, they may be wrong. I mean, you may be suddenly experiencing, my god, this is beautiful. This is okay. And culturally and even socially, it may always remain unacceptable in in that framework. But for you within you personally, it may be very helpful. It may be very fulfilling, very wonderful. Uh so yes, be alone, be

00:57:11 – 00:58:17
still, if you meditate on a regular basis, if you fervently pray, any of those conditions that can bring you to aloneeness. And I don’t mean depressive aloneeness. I don’t mean loneliness. I mean aloneeness to be still. Don’t have music playing. Don’t have anything. Be alone and be still. And then, you know, love yourself. Be as unconditional as you can be. Surround yourself with the new knowledge. be aware of the new knowledge and sort of throw it up in the air, so to speak, or say, “Is this the

00:57:44 – 00:58:51
egotistical me just wishing for sensationalism? Is this the spiritual me just so hungry for food that I’m grasping at crumbs and I’m not seeing the full loaf? Is this me reaching for a single grape on a vine when the fruit of the tree is knowledge and not fruit at all? Never a vine or a tree? that the the the fruit of knowledge is knowledge. It’s the comprehension of knowledge. And that that’s a never ending cycle. As long as we’re still in the human condition, a neverending cycle. I don’t

00:58:17 – 00:59:28
care if you’re an ignorant um uh uh lowly person by you know, you set your own standards. Um or if that you are an intellectual or if you are a spiritual leader or if you are It doesn’t matter who and what you are. never ending cycle. The greatest rashi, the greatest sage, uh the saints, the few saints that I have a perception for and am aware of uh and I’m declaring that also by saying it that way. Uh and aware of they I’m talking uh that are alive incarnate and alive right this

00:58:53 – 01:00:25
minute right now. They are in the same cycle and they are learning. They don’t know all they are learning and that is a never- ending cycle and it should be dealt with very carefully. As soon as you label yourself, you have limited yourself uh post um in that the new age is almost passing through enough years to be considered the new old age or the old new age. Would you like to address your favorite word called nav? Yeah. Which is a very loving gesture describing uh this phrase new age uh newagers uh the uh space music is often

00:59:39 – 01:00:58
referred to and called new age music. All right. And a great deal of that uh unfortunately I’ll say I’ll declare and at least some of it is referred to by me and several other people as NABS new age Um and sure that’s the caution again the uh the ism theology the subject matter is it purely sensationalism is it real true and I don’t mean I want it to be this way therefore I’ve decided it will be this way I mean real truth very often truth really hurts our feelings know that I

01:00:19 – 01:01:51
don’t really want this to happen to me and yet it has to that’s a learning experience in itself Um yeah, be very careful of such things uh to dawn new robes uh is fun. It may may even be exciting as the dress up type stuff. But be aware that when you dawn new robes, you are learning something and that until you become by your own standards familiar with it enough to see it only as robes and not as a title and as a an attainment. Um just be cautious of that. Enjoy. Enjoy. I have a little sticker on my

01:01:05 – 01:02:15
refrigerator. It says uh enjoy life. This is not with herself. Um, and I mean that that’s really the point I want to make regarding that. Um, so it’s hard sometimes to be discerning and not be judging, you know, right? I mean, you have to discern for yourself what’s right for you at the same time not judging the other person as being wrong. Very good. Very good. That’s right. So it may be right because the other person it is right also who is your teacher don’t answer that I mean who is your

01:01:42 – 01:02:43
teacher well did I learn from garbage men now see just by saying that right away I’ve stereotyped well now the people that don’t know me that well yes I have learned some of the most profound divine and wonderful things from one of the most stereotypical garbage men and I’ll even give his name George Burmeister I do a little with children and And I use that same name because of the divinity that I have a perception for his name, God restless his soul, passed on. George Burmeister was a

01:02:13 – 01:03:24
garbage man and worked with me for three years as a garbage man in Monroe County. And we were one of the best crews that were garbage men. We went to the houses and collected the garbage. Um, so what does that have to do with teaching and divinity? George Brewmeister was a very unique individual as most of us are. And in that um in that time frame when I had the company of George Furmeister as a personal friend and now I can give him a title of a teacher. I learn extremely profound things about uh

01:02:48 – 01:03:54
society about I mean just the entire gamut of subjects. Um be careful of who your teachers are. You can learn some of the most divine things from garbage men and people with badges and and slasharts on their sleeve and doctorates degrees. And I’m not making fun of any of those people. God bless them for what they have accomplished. But be careful because the degrees don’t make the teacher the teacher. That yellow aspect of a person’s being is the teacher condition. And the lessons to be learned

01:03:21 – 01:04:48
may require math or language and other things. Um, I’m afraid we’re going to be drowned out by sound. So, let’s cut take a little I’m going to throw out a couple of words to you that I personally have never heard you discuss. One is capital punishment. Oh, just that. Okay, I’ll respond to that. um capital punishment in a a newly formed and rather archaic and I don’t dare use the word simplistic society had value and that in any given society there are circumstances which the

01:04:04 – 01:05:37
society needs to be protected from with the u inability to incarcerate or protect or chain or prevent it was a viable option. Um gee to further answer this question listen to the whole answer not just the sentence that I Tom Sawyer totally disagree with capital punishment. I do disagree that it is an unfortunate situation where we human beings have to purposely take the life of another human being. that is admitting the worst failure of the society or we as human beings. It is um denying large amounts

01:04:51 – 01:06:10
of our capacity for compassion, for understanding, for knowledge, for reparation. Um I should qualify myself to say that I have visited Adica prison on several occasions. Um I heard a comedian once talking about it and he said uh that he had been to I I might have been Attica also but a major prison. Then he said thank God for prisons. All right. I have a tendency to agree with that that unfortunate as it may be there are individuals there are human beings that are incarcerated in prisons such as ADICA. and for our

01:05:31 – 01:06:41
society and my children and my well-being. Thank God that they are in there behind bars and I’m able to walk down the street rather comfortably. Okay, now that we’ve got on to that subject to annihilate that person, to put that person to death for crimes committed or for the prevention of further crimes committed, that’s unfortunate. We have the technology right now to not just do a labbotomy. Many people have that fearful thing of back as early or as short a time ago as the 1950s where they would do a frontal

01:06:06 – 01:07:13
labbotomy and destroy a person’s brain and make them into practically a vegetable and that they would just be zombie-like and walk around. And some people think that that’s a viable option for somebody as a child rapist, a murderer, a mass murderer who psychologically will obviously do that again. If they are released into society, they will do it again. And all the psychology schools in the world are not going to repair that person. They’re not going to make that person not be a psychopathic murderer.

01:06:39 – 01:08:03
Okay? Uh to kill that person. We have the technology right now to do a form of brain surgery to alleviate pressures situations. Um and I’m hinting toward a partial labbotomy. In other words, make that person physically unable to uh perform a certain act or to function in a way where they can intellectually, shall I say, intellectually or psychologically create the situation in their lives and in their mind that makes them the perpetrator of a rape, a murder, something of this nature. Um, it

01:07:21 – 01:08:39
has never solved the vindictive uh in never realized satisfaction that um that bastard is dead now and that makes me feel better um so much everybody’s fine and my mother says hello. um you know for that person to be dead and and have that satisfaction of say the father of a child who has been murdered saying uh I’m glad that the person is dead well that’s superficial that’s surfacewise and what he’s really saying is his frustration and misunderstanding bear with me if I say

01:08:04 – 01:09:12
that his misunderstanding and his frustration for the perpetrator to do such a thing is now gone And in his mind, he’s telling himself that that can never happen again. Now, that is correct in a way because if the person is dead, they’re not going to very well kill another uh murder another person or rape another person or something that is under the uh heading of why do we have capital punishment? And to uh to solve what problem? uh it doesn’t solve the depth of the problem of the deeprooted frustration of

01:08:38 – 01:09:46
the loss of a loved one by way of uh one of these crimes and it does not really upgrade society. You will never be able I shouldn’t say never never say never but you for right now for this day if you went and and killed all the psychopaths first of all you’re never going to find them and as you proceed in doing this facilitation there will be creating by the society alone additional psychopaths other you will never be able to weed out the killer right you’ll never be able to accomplish that goal so

01:09:12 – 01:10:21
if you look at the society as a whole the society as a whole has not solved anything. It’s a band-aid uh process that cannot work because you cannot kill or execute all of the people that are a detriment to society. So, you’re never going to be successful that way toward that success. What do we do with a Charles Manson? What do we do with an Adolf Hitler? What do we do with a a child rapist uh convicted and so on? I think the most intelligent psychiatrist, the most intelligent and there are very few

01:09:47 – 01:10:57
by my standards who are intelligent enough to admit openly that the probability is that we will never change a murderer from the capacity of murdering again. We can teach them remorse. We can teach them that it stems from an unfortunate childhood and all these things that are just add to the frustration. very little true understanding is gained in my opinion by the uh statements and so on that well this person murdered because uh his mother beat him as a child. I mean that’s um rather shallow. That’s not the

01:10:22 – 01:11:44
u that’s not the only thing that created that person um to becoming a criminal. Uh so the problem isn’t solved with u performing capital punishment. um to incarcerate these people costs a lot of money. Are we a society that can afford it? Well, if we can afford $50 million for a um an airplane, an airplane that doesn’t necessarily work and if it is ever used, it’ll be too late to have satisfaction in the society anyway. We can spend $50 million for a single airplane for that. Can we afford to incarcerate the people

01:11:03 – 01:12:26
that we cannot address and cannot answer and cannot repair? Right. Yes, we can. We can afford to build facilities suitable enough and uh technologically sound enough to incarcerate uh such individuals for the moment being. if we do not have the technology to perform physical type or biochemical or biological reparations within their body. When you have a cancerous state on your arm, it may have to be cut away and allow a skin graft and so on to be generally a whole person, a well person. Um we’re learning in psychological terms

01:11:44 – 01:12:49
that you can be uh manically depressed and with uh certain therapies and possibly chemical interventions and so on you can biochemically repair yourself extended that is available to us today. I’m not saying that uh in the local hospital right now they can do that but it really hasn’t there’s been no money poured into that. There’s been no major research involved in that. By major I mean worldwide worldwide attention to say we have this very serious problem. Here’s monies for research. What can and

01:12:17 – 01:13:30
can’t we do? And of course it deals it it goes into uh uh the criminal justice system that what can you do to a person? Isn’t it ironic that we can legally kill a person called capital punishment but we cannot legally inject them with the serum that may possibly cure them. I mean it’s very ironic. Um but no I think that capital punishment is incorrect because there are other ways of protecting society. Uh to make one feel good because a person is dead having uh created a heinous crime uh that’s too

01:12:54 – 01:14:03
shallow and that person needs to work out their depression or their anxiety regarding their opinions of society themselves. Wow. How about the word abortion? Yeah, it’s in the news lately. Um, all right. Right off the bat, I want to make it clear because I have skirted the issue and you know, anybody of any intelligence has to be very careful talking about the subject in general because first of all, it’s an emotional thing. And if I say that this poem is beautiful and you don’t understand it or

01:13:28 – 01:14:33
like it, how am I to convince you that I’m okay and I’m right for liking it? You may think that I’m a jerk for liking such trash. Okay. Since it’s generally an emotional issue and a spiritual issue, a religious issue, some spiritual and religious, other people it’s a religious issue and they don’t they’re not even aware of any degree of spirituality within their life. God bless those people. But generally I think that an abortion in other words uh and again let’s just zero in on the the

01:14:01 – 01:15:15
mother to be or the woman who is carrying this fetus this zygote or this fetus um extraordinary situation that we’re not prepared to deal with culturally. There hasn’t been a culture that has really dealt with that accurately at all in history as far as I know. um that that is one of the most unfortunate situations that they have the option for currently. Uh it will be rather devastating if the person is a materialistic person and they solely judge this that this will interfere with my career with my profession and that I

01:14:37 – 01:15:49
don’t want a child, I don’t want a baby, and I don’t care about anything else. um they will experience the emotional, the psychological and to a degree spiritual aspects of uh postpartum uh situation and if not right away then later and if right away possibly those feelings those real experiences will fade in time so psychologically they can even block them out but they will and they should be told that they will have those experiences. I know this also from talking with several people who have gone through

01:15:13 – 01:16:21
this. All right. Now, the religious aspect. Um, I could right away pick on Catholicism because they’re about the most famous right now saying that no matter what, this is just absolutely wrong and you will be a sinner and you’ll be condemned to hell for ever having done such a thing. Well, philosophically regarding that, I’ve already criticized u aspects of the Catholic Church, which by the way I still attend and still enjoy. Um there’s got to be a realization or there there there is a massive

01:15:47 – 01:16:57
realization by almost everybody and then to overcome a cultural conditioning is very difficult for people. When it comes to the point where the pope says you have to do it or the pope says you don’t have to do it. Well, that’s not just the pope. That’s a hierarchy of a business. The business of the Catholic Church. I’m picking on them. Now, it’s the business of a particular religion. And that that is um men and women mostly men who are deciding this through various ration uh spiritual

01:16:21 – 01:17:43
realizations and mostly I’m sorry to say business propositions in other words how do we control the masses do we give this kind of power to our followers to our parishioners uh do we count on their their emotions and their compassion for life that they will realize such situations as no I will have to uh interrupt my career or my schooling or my uh selfishness and I’m not being judgmental when I say that I’m using dictionary definitions um part of my life right now because of the circumstances that has either and be

01:17:03 – 01:18:18
careful how I say this happened to me or that I have created in my life in other words uh Was it a rape situation in a pregnancy from that? That has a tendency to give different circumstances then? Uh, no. I was only lustful and I didn’t uh allow myself the time or the intelligence, if you will, to uh uh protect myself with means of contraception. And that’s a whole another subject too, but fits into the abortion issue because very bluntly, a vast majority of abortions are for fertility control. And for somebody to

01:17:41 – 01:18:43
just say, I don’t want to address fertility at all. I’m only telling you that abortion is killing uh a child to be or a human being to be. that’s rather shallow-minded because they’re only pointing the finger and their name calling and they’re not solving a very real problem. Um, abortions are forced on young children, by children, I’m talking about 12 and 15 year olds where well, not to worry. We’ll give this child an abortion and we’ll do what we can to make her

01:18:12 – 01:19:30
comfortable with the rest of her life. That may be advantageous. It may be it may be successful to whatever your measurements are or whatever my measurements are regarding that child’s expected life. Um meaning the young child who got pregnant. Um and of course the issue of that we have potential. Well, I really would like to have some of the people who argue pro and con and are only steadfast in their position to start addressing potential. I mean potential, human potential. I’m not just saying human

01:18:51 – 01:19:59
potential that a zygote or a fetus will potentially become a viable uh self- sustained human being. Yes, we all know that. Most of us are familiar with that and there is potential there. But the potential of the individual, the pregnant mother. All right? And what is the potential as a mother to be? What is the potential of after having had an abortion for that mother to be ever be a mother again or again potential? I don’t want to give any titles to what my expectancy of any given individual is.

01:19:25 – 01:20:43
Um, g I’m actually talking round and round circles. I’m just bringing up additional subject matters that have to be addressed to address the general issue uh general issue of abortion the abortion issue itself. Uh my opinion is is that such a thing should be dealt with as detailed as possible. I think that any individual who is considering an abortion as an option at all. I mean even considering it even thinking about it now there’s not desiring abortion but having become pregnant are being

01:20:04 – 01:21:07
frustrated by seeing in the newspaper the word abortion and are totally disgusted by that. I think that it’s um it’s the responsibility of each individual to not be narrow-minded and say well I’ve heard of abortion but my church says I shouldn’t do it so I don’t want to hear any more about it. That’s being very narrow-minded and that’s cheating yourself. That’s cheating yourself of understanding. Understanding the situations of people and even gaining compassion for people who unfortunately

01:20:36 – 01:21:45
make mistakes. And again, I’m not just saying that anybody who has an abortion has made a mistake. Not claiming that because I won’t speak for every individual. I know of many circumstances where there have been mistakes made and the person has had an abortion and is sorry for that. Uh do they die a month later? No. They live on and their potential is often enhanced culturally, enhanced spiritually, enhanced religiously having gone through this quote unquote mistake. Right? For them it was a mistake. It’s something that

01:21:10 – 01:22:20
now in their human condition that they are working out. I’m not giving them an excuse for what they have accomplished in their life. Uh I’m just saying that this is a real situation and there are not one or two, there are millions and millions. Uh I do think that it should be considered as an absolute last resort for anything. I think it should be considered as a an absolute last resort for uh fertility control. I mean I don’t like the idea. In other words, intuitively, inherently, it’s not

01:21:44 – 01:22:56
correct. I don’t like the idea. Um, as far as an option for an incestual pregnancy or as a result of a rape, it should not be totally ignored. What are the options? What are the potentials? And again, I’m going strictly against the philosophy and so on of uh again, mostly Catholicism and religious fervor that uh potential for life is therefore life. Also, you have to realize that you and I are not the society. We’re an integral part of it. And if you are feeling democratic at all and you say the

01:22:24 – 01:23:43
majority uh rules, you can understand that philosophically. And the sign of the times is that unfortunate decisions are made that may very well be popular at the moment but in a hundred years from now will become to be realized as a horrendous mistake. Did the Roman Empire become extremely lustful generally? Was it popular and okay culturally speaking and therefore by demand religiously speaking by pressures and so on that uh sexual orgies uh and lustful situations because again we’re dealing with

01:23:02 – 01:24:12
abortion and sex therefore um and did it become the norm? Did it become acceptable to lose your virginity to a stranger? To all of these various issues that are intertwined and and then um ending up at the general subject matter of of a conceivable abortion. And the fact is that yes, they did that. Yes, they allowed themselves over a hundred years in time or more to c culturally condition themselves to say, well, this is okay. This is okay. Well, this is an answer to this. This is a quick fix, a

01:23:37 – 01:24:53
quick answer to this situation. And to also allow their emotions, in this case, a lustful emotion or their um the things that rule their lives become overwhelming in their lives and therefore have their society become overly anything. There’s a great danger in that. And of course, the Roman Empire was defeated from within. And uh did they honestly honestly allow themselves to maintain their minimum spiritual awareness? No, they didn’t. They justifiably step by step justifiably uh and of course we can be judgmental

01:24:15 – 01:25:26
and say got worse and worse and worse. But at any given time in that society they said we’re getting better and better and better. We’re enjoying more of life. We’re having uh more states of ecstasy. When states of ecstasy are are a benefit and joyful and all that, but a continuous state of ecstasy can only be experienced after this human condition, not during. Wow. Okay. Um, we’ve heard a lot about the energy influxes into the planet and um the changes of the ozone layer and radiation

01:24:52 – 01:26:13
and mutations. How do you see life being affected by it? Yeah, certainly is being affected in the last 10 years. Uh I want to well I shouldn’t brag because I shouldn’t lay claim to a realization, but I’ve seen uh several changes and I can uh be proud and brag and say that those changes have not been as bad as the scenario was shown to me. uh not only as part as a bear with if I say this phrase but a flash forward of my life review I know that’s almost a contradiction of terms but as part of my

01:25:31 – 01:26:45
life review there was uh possibilities and probabilities of future scenarios uh some people might not understand that but bear with me um as part of that there are future scenarios and even uh bits and pieces of knowledge of future events in other words precognitive absolute future events events that were extremely negative by my standards. In other words, extremely detrimental to the environment, detrimental to we people. Uh in fact, as we approach the turn of the century in a time frame ranging from the last 10 or 11 years and

01:26:09 – 01:27:16
extended through the turn of the century and even beyond. Uh hypothetically, let’s limit it to say the year 2150. Um and in that time frame, there’s been many changes. One of the delightful things that I want to share with you is that regarding the atmospheric pollution, the chemical pollution, the um well even the cultural conditioning forms if you want to consider that forms of pollution. Are we allowing ourselves to become more lustful? Are we allowing ourselves to become greedy? Are we

01:26:41 – 01:27:54
allowing ourselves to be and enjoy being a materialist? Materialistic. Is this really the me generation? Give me more. And if I have more than you, does that make me better than you? All that, that’s pollution. That’s forms of pollution. Yeah, we’ve done a pretty good job in the last 10 years. Um, I have played a part, well, actually a hands-on part of chemical pollutions. I’ve documented places and situations in the Niagara Frontier, um on the Niagara River, and the Rochester area, um places

01:27:18 – 01:28:25
in Italy that I’ve never been to before, various things that that I have actually facilitated. Um in other words, a momentary event, a singular thing, uh a bunch of 55gallon drums that I became aware of in one way or another. uh chemical pollution of the human condition in Italy that I became aware of. What did I do about it? I did something about it. Did I right away call Greenpeace and take up a club and go and smash the chemical plant that was there? No. There’s various other ways. Um did would that have changed the

01:27:52 – 01:29:00
society? It would have made a news article for that day. Uh but would it have changed the attitudes that create the situation of well, let’s get rid of this anywhere. it doesn’t matter as long as we make a profit. Um the probability is that would not have changed that. So in a in an ongoing basis in a flowing way there is a time when you have to take up the garden hose and water this down and be careful how you do it. There’s a time when you say, “No, I really don’t mind driving my car less if

01:28:25 – 01:29:44
it’s going to enhance the atmosphere.” And that if my car pollutes this much, let me make a loving gesture and walk 10% of that distance until they the car manufacturers can come up with electric cars and so on and others. All that sort of stuff. All that’s um been going on and I’m glad to say that it’s been going on. uh and at an accelerated rate. There have been a couple of uh major events that have come to pass that the event itself precognitive in its origin as I experienced did not

01:29:05 – 01:30:17
come to pass. Now is that a contradiction of terms? In a way it is. but through acts of free will and the free will of mankind. Something that is historically precognitive. In other words, it will happen on this day at this time and it will take place like this. Well, through free will and enhancements and so on, as paradoxical as that sounds or as contradictory as it sounds, uh the event in fact did not take place. Um I’m thinking of one particular event right now, but there have been several. So all that is upbeat

01:29:41 – 01:30:51
and I say thank you for everybody who’s participated and thank you for listening right now and coming to this realization that we any one of us can make a difference and collectively we have to make a difference. The negative side of that is that right now currently as of this recording, as of this talking, um we’re not doing that good and that we are methodically poisoning the big blue marble that we live on. Uh we are spewing toxic chemicals that are irreversible. Meaning nature as we know

01:30:16 – 01:31:44
it, I want to really emphasize it. I’ll say it again. Nature as we know it has no way to reverse those chemicals into a safe state for plant life, animal life and the human condition such as the dioxins uh nature and u uh dissolving uh what’s the phrase watering down uh diluting uh diluting cannot dilute the amount of poisons the The example being dioxidants. The only way that we can uh rearrange the molecular structure of dioxidants is by extreme high temperature incineration. Funny I should

01:30:59 – 01:32:29
mention that because again I want to emphasize that nature as we know it cannot rid the big blue marble or our society of those kind of pollutants. uh I am aware that nature will regardless of how long it takes or regardless of what it needs to create will in fact tolerate this type of pollution for a very short time period over and in fact that nature will take back its own. Now what am I saying? Am I saying that somehow a supernova or the star or the sun will go to supernova unpredictably and in high temp

01:31:49 – 01:33:23
temperature incineration cleanse the earth? That is feasible. Is it probable? No, it’s not probable. Is it possible? Yes, it’s possible. Um, are there certain and what was the last I said? And are there circumstances right now? Yeah, as a matter of fact is um yeah, as I was just describing that u in spite of our progress that we’ve made in the recent past that you know we can’t say well now we’ll just wait and allow our technology and so on to correct the rest of the situation. No, I think that each of us

01:32:41 – 01:34:11
will ourelves changing our our normal or our usual activities to give in a little bit to um uh that tradeoff between let’s slow down a little bit until we can speed up with uh less polluting transportation uh facilitations. Um in other words, if we have a need to spray our lawns with chemicals, can we do it one application instead of five? Um, and is there a need at all for it? Generally, yes, there is. Um, that industry itself seems to be pretty well under control as far as the extreme toxicity of the chemicals that

01:33:27 – 01:34:36
they’re using because that’s a big problem. Now, you have the number of lawns that are being sprayed. That’s chemical direct chemical pollution. The birds die, uh, runoff and so on. An example that I can use might not be the best example, but on one end of the scale is that u the worry about salting the roads this part of the country and of course Rochester is known as salt city. Well, I’m directly involved in that. I not only adjust the salt trucks, but I have responsibility to do that. Um

01:34:00 – 01:35:10
the fear is that uh the ecology is being changed by only the salt and the on the roads. Well, if you go by any highway at all and look along the edge of the road, well, there is not nothing. There are a lot of weeds and a lot of grass there. So, even though for instance, this last year, which was our lightest winter in snowfall, we used more salt than we have ever used in any year in the uh known history of calculations. other let’s say the last 20 years we’ve used a greater amount of salt in the in the town of

01:34:36 – 01:35:44
Greece the Greece area uh in the last many years and was it necessary no it wasn’t necessary uh is it common practice that all the lovely little Kodak workers demand dry roads possibly a little bit wet and they complain about that but it’s acceptable and they want dry roads to drive to work every day instead of uh navigable roads Well, that’s the problem. And will we, if we want a better environment, give into that and say, uh, we’ll have to learn to slow down. We’ll have to learn

01:35:10 – 01:36:17
to drive properly. We’ll have to learn to do along with, uh, spotted roads instead of bone dry roads within an hour and a half of a snowfall. Uh, that’s attitude more than anything because, um, traffic can get through just fine. A, little bit slower. Nobody will be late. and so on. But in spite of all of that, the point I’m using is the example of the salt is that the salt is not polluting the local environment to the point of detriment. I’m not denying that there’s some effect because there’s an

01:35:43 – 01:36:45
effect everything has an effect on everything else, but as far as a major catastrophic situation in the local ponds, in other words, is the saline solution in the ponds killing the fish? The answer is no, it isn’t. Uh Is that our only measurement? Is it killing uh some krill type little freshwater shrimp? Well, I’m sure that there is less freshwater shrimp in the ponds because of the salt. So, where do you draw the line? Does that mean that there’s less fish? No. So, that’s within

01:36:14 – 01:37:25
a degree of control and that we’re coping with that. But other things such as the uh depletion of the ozone. Major problem with that is here we are striving and caring. Most of the people that will ever see this uh recording are certainly caring people and they’ll say, “Well, I don’t really want a hair spray or a spray of any kind that is going to uh injure or add to the depletion of the ozone layer.” And isn’t it strange though that we have things called SR71s and stealth bombers and things like that

01:36:49 – 01:37:55
that a single flight of one of these horrendously beautifully technological machines will deplete the ozone the equivalent of all of the spray cans single flight. So what are you doing? You’re crying and screaming, yelling and worrying about an aerosol can. When you have space shuttles going up, killing every bird and every living mammal and animal in its wake in the Florida Everglades, uh, the equivalent of all our little spray cans. So, does that mean that we should say, “Well, the hell

01:37:22 – 01:38:28
with it.” Because as long as B-52 bombers and and B2 bombers and what have you are going to be flying at these extreme altitudes and they’re doing so much more damage than we can possibly do, should we just say, “Well, my little bit isn’t going to add that much more.” No. Because to add more is horrendously incorrect. To do a little bit less for the betterment of the environment is that much better. And again it’s attitudes. So if you do a little bit better and it has no uh general effect on the

01:37:55 – 01:39:02
environment but your attitude has changed you and your cousin who may work on the engines at General Electric and Lockheed and all those places with the attitudinal change they will say you know we really are polluting the ozone layer horrendously and they already know those measurements but it’ll be shall I say brought to light. So, it’s one of those trade-offs that yes, we are uh doing poorly as far as the misusing the planet that we live on and we’re doing very poorly. I mean, I am when I drive

01:38:29 – 01:39:32
this car that only gets 15 miles a gallon. Um, we’re all guilty of it to a degree or another. To just be aware and to change your attitude is helpful. That’s the first stage. Uh, second stage is what can we do? Well, that’s an individual thing. Of course, some people devote their entire life to just exactly that. If it be save the whales, and what do you have to do to save the whales? Well, don’t pollute the krill that they feed on. In order to not pollute the krill that they feed on, you’ve got to

01:39:00 – 01:40:07
reduce your reliability on oil from Alaska. So, in other words, from saving a whale to getting rid of oil tankers. Wow. Uh, but one thing That’s right. Exactly. Well, if you were going to have a few more minutes to tell the class what you’d really like to tell them rather than what we’ve been asking you, what would you like to uh All right. To smile with, I just want to say, don’t worry, be happy. Now that we’re not worrying and we’re happy in this happy state, start worrying

01:39:35 – 01:40:45
again. Because with a clear mind and humor, you can address issues that are so horrendous that you would throw up or get nauseous. And with humor to offset that, you can then address those issues that you’re not comfortable with. So, uh, yeah, I would say that. And I do want to just drift back a little bit toward the pollution of Big Blue Marble. I think that we’re pretty much on schedule with the onset of our attitudinal new age. In other words, more and more people are becoming spiritually oriented, whatever that

01:40:10 – 01:41:12
means. Um, so there’s becoming aware that they are more than just a biological species and or a plant or an animal and that the human condition is a spiritual being. Um, so that’s pretty much taking care of itself. I’m not saying don’t have conferences. I’m not saying don’t teach younger and people who you know you can help by saying you know there is such a thing as hands-on healing. Uh and then go ahead and describe that. If you don’t know anything about it, say that you think

01:40:41 – 01:41:59
so. It may stimulate somebody to go and read that first book or u find a teacher to uh learn things like that. That’s pretty much take care of itself um toward the answering the horrendous pollutions and misuse of the big blue marble. A lot of that is attitudinal. Give one real quick example. There was not that long ago an earthquake in Italy. And the scenario goes simply that in the area of this town there was an Italian phrase that is very well known to the local people and it basically says literally pray to the

01:41:20 – 01:42:38
virgin of the mountain of Taberno. Well, that means literally pray to the Virgin Mary. Of course, in Italy being culturally and religiously Catholic. Therefore, the Virgin Mary is a predominant religious figure. And aso as opposed to praying directly to God, you can pay to the Virgin Mary and get all kinds of favors and enhancements. Well, in spite of the translation of that, the scenario goes simply that the original phrase meant yes, it meant pray and yes, it meant pray to an um uh an idol or a figure that represents an

01:42:00 – 01:43:09
aspect of the trinity. Okay, I’ll agree with that. But what it’s really saying is it doesn’t say that instead of working, you should kneel and pray and instead of praying a prayer wheel, you have to use the rosary. It’s not really saying that. It’s saying maintain and be aware of the minimum spiritual requirement of you as an individual unit and as your society, as a unit, as a a congregation, as a a neighborhood, as an area, the mountain of Taberno, u uh the United States, uh the whole big blue

01:42:34 – 01:43:55
marble as a unit. There are these different degrees that the human condition is like a glue if you will and I I meant to say the spiritual aspect of the human condition. Our spirituality is an actual positive glue that is keeping a degree of well I’ll say peace uh tranquility. Will it stop an earthquake if the plates on the continents are moving? No, it won’t. But if the plates are doing whatever they’re supposed to be and the spiritual the spiritualness of the human condition of that area goes below the minimum

01:43:14 – 01:44:03
requirement, I’m telling you that there will be such a thing as an earthquake to cleanse spiritually cleanse the human condition. Even if it mean to kill a third or threequarters of the population to traumatize and upgrade the spiritual awareness of the survivors so that they become [cuts off]